MotoGP rider Vinales critical of Supersport 300 class after latest death

[weeksy]

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... /10383854/

Aprilia MotoGP rider Maverick Vinales has heavily criticised the World Supersport 300 category following the death of Dutch racer Victor Steeman earlier this week.

The 22-year-old was involved in a multi-rider incident during last weekend’s Supersport 300 race at Portimao as part of the World Superbike support package.

Steeman suffered severe head injuries which he tragically succumbed to on Tuesday.

He is the second rider in the space of a year to have been killed riding in the Supersport 300 class, after Dean Berta Vinales – cousin of Maverick – lost his life in a similar incident at Jerez in 2021.

Dean Berta Vinales’ death ushered in new age limit and grid number cap rules for smaller capacity bike categories like Moto3 and Supersport 300.

But Maverick Vinales believes the biggest issue currently is the Supersport 300 bike itself, which he says is too heavy and not powerful enough, which means pack races are too common.

“I always had the same opinion about the Supersport 300, and I said before Dean [had his accident] and that type of category with bikes of 160 kilos that can ride at maximum 140mph on the straight is useless for a rider,” Vinales began when asked what needs to be done after another fatal incident in Supersport 300.

“You don’t learn nothing. The talented guys are involved in a situation that if you have a bike that is two km/h faster, you win the race. There is no talent in that.

“I remember when I was a kid when I had to ride 125GP, there you were talented and it was impossible to win or to follow the good guys

“I remember I arrived here in the world championship, the first time I followed the good guys I highisded. So, I learned a lesson.
“You need to work. But in this moment, also Moto3 – yes, you see some [good] riders. But they go together [in races], it wasn’t like this in the past.

“The talent was more than if the bike was a bit faster or slower. And for me the problem with Supersport 300 is the bikes are 160 kilos, they have no speed, they go together and of course if someone crashes in front of you it’s impossible to escape or something.

“For me it’s not about the age, it's not about the riders, it’s about the bikes. They have no power, weight like a MotoGP bike, brakes are shit, swingarm from the street.

“The problem is the category, not the riders. It’s not the age, because when I was 13 I rode 125GP and nothing happened because we were not 20 in one pack. There were only four, three, not more because it was difficult.”

Vinales added that he has previously tried riding the Supersport 300 bike and revealed he told his family that it was not a class his cousin Dean should have been racing in.

“I tried the 300, it’s a very easy bike, you can go together [in a pack], there’s no power,” he said.

“You can be a rider that is two seconds slower [than the best], if you can follow then you can go with the first [guys]. So basically it’s about that.

“Of course, when it was the time I said to my family ‘I think this category is not good for Dean, it’s not good he rides here’.

“But in the end, things go like that. But of course, if this continues much more things will happen because this category – as I said – there’s too much weight on the bike, no power so they all go together, the bikes are not even racing bikes. That’s the biggest issue I think.”

[Skub]

It's hard to disagree with him.

The thing is and we all say it,we want a show,we want to see close racing. This is one of the perils of a packed field and close racing.

I don't know if preventing fatalities is possible in motorcycle racing,look at the IOM TT as an extreme example,every year is almost guaranteed at least one death. Collateral damage as far as the IOM tourist board is concerned.

[weeksy]

It's hard to disagree with him.

The thing is and we all say it,we want a show,we want to see close racing. This is one of the perils of a packed field and close racing.

I don't know if preventing fatalities is possible in motorcycle racing,look at the IOM TT as an extreme example,every year is almost guaranteed at least one death. Collateral damage as far as the IOM tourist board is concerned.

That's the rub yeah. Pointless having racing where there's 5 overtakes all race, just ask MotoGP. We want close.

[wull]

I must admit and I’m not saying this just because of the two accidents this year with the smaller capacity bikes but watching these races gives me the fear, I love seeing the close racing that you get between Jonny and that because you never think anything bad will ever happen but the close racing that you get with the 300’s just don’t do it for me, it’s a different kind of closeness that’s borderline chaos, how there hasn’t been more accidents baffles me, it’s madness.

[wull]

You can’t stop it but you can try and reduce it, risk assessment at its best. If they implement something to try and reduce the chances of it happening it will still happen, it’s just a case of trying everything to reduce that from happening.

I’m fairly certain I read today that some want them to bring back some form of traction control to BSB as they believe that will stop the same incidents from happening in BSB, like what happened to Chrissy. I’ve seen more near misses this year in BSB than I can remember from previous years, probably due to the fact that the pack is much closer now.

[Skub]

Most tracks are as safe as they can be,but the one thing which can't be ruled out is the possibility of being clobbered by a following rider,or riders. That can happen in any race. Motogp with Marco Simoncelli,recently in BSB with Chrissy Rouse and now 300 Supersport with Victor Steeman.

A rider is almost certain to walk away after most offs,but they are all racing and sometimes avoiding a fallen rider isn't possible. That can't be fixed.

[wull]

No but they’re looking at the bikes themselves contributing to the pack racing. The tracks like you say are the safest they can be, or at least should be. The discussions seem to be aimed at what can be done with regards to the bikes to reduce this risk of pack racing and incidents where they get hit.

If they’re going to do something about it it won’t be easy that’s for sure. Is it simply a case of it is what it is, it’s racing, you’ve got x amount of riders and the potential for them to be in a pack and that’s it, the potential is always there for it to happen. Like I said, they could implement something and it could happen again, and you’ll never know if it didn’t happen was it because of what was implemented or just purely because it wouldn’t have happened either way.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I don't think you're going to be able to remove the problem of a fallen rider being hit by another rider, but being hit by a 100kg bike would be a lot better than being hit by a 160kg bike, other things that could be done are changing the shape of the bike so that it is more difficult to slipstream or maybe not needing to be as close to slipstream, making the bikes harder to ride could also work, as the more skilled riders would build bigger gaps.

[Couchy]

I don't think you're going to be able to remove the problem of a fallen rider being hit by another rider, but being hit by a 100kg bike would be a lot better than being hit by a 160kg bike, other things that could be done are changing the shape of the bike so that it is more difficult to slipstream or maybe not needing to be as close to slipstream, making the bikes harder to ride could also work, as the more skilled riders would build bigger gaps.

Isn’t the issue so many bunched together so if you fall there’s more chance of being hit, mentioning the weight is being used to show how the bikes aren’t very good and more can get the best out of them so more are bunched together. With a harder to ride pure racing bike you get less people able to ride them hard so less bunched together

[Tarmacsurfer]

It's ok voicing an opinion on the problem but what's the solution?
Is he suggesting they scrap low power one-make series?
If so then what do you replace it with? Or is he expecting young ones to jump straight to supersport 600s (for example)

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I don't think you're going to be able to remove the problem of a fallen rider being hit by another rider, but being hit by a 100kg bike would be a lot better than being hit by a 160kg bike, other things that could be done are changing the shape of the bike so that it is more difficult to slipstream or maybe not needing to be as close to slipstream, making the bikes harder to ride could also work, as the more skilled riders would build bigger gaps.

Isn’t the issue so many bunched together so if you fall there’s more chance of being hit, mentioning the weight is being used to show how the bikes aren’t very good and more can get the best out of them so more are bunched together. With a harder to ride pure racing bike you get less people able to ride them hard so less bunched together

Yes, that's why I said make the bikes harder to ride.

[mangocrazy]

Motor bike racing shouldn't be easy. It should be difficult. The SSP300 class is a perfect example of dumbing down the bike spec to give ultra-close racing at the expense of rider safety. Mav is bang on the money as far as I'm concerned. Make the bikes a lot lighter, significantly faster and harder to ride and that will spread the field enough to ensure that when someone goes down there's less chance of 10 riders right behind ploughing into him (or her). The organisers have to make a choice between ridiculously close racing or rider safety.

So we won't have quite the heart in mouth spectacle we do now, but hopefully a few more young kids can grow to be older adults.

[Skub]

The pack is always going to be bunched together in the opening laps at least,but I suppose if that wasn't the case for full race distance,then that's a win of sorts,in safety terms.

[Yorick]

I CBA this time of night.
But what's the weight of Moto3 bikes compared to SS300?

[Yorick]

I CBA this time of night.
But what's the weight of Moto3 bikes compared to SS300?

And the power ?

Zzzz

[wull]

Moto 3 bikes

Bikes
Cubic capacity: 250 cm3.
Power: 60 bhp.
Weight: 80 kg.
Maximum speed: 240 kph.

Ss300 bikes

KTM RC 390 R, single cylinder, minimum weight 136 kg, limit revolutions per minute 10.450 RPM

Yamaha YZF-R3, twin-cylinder, minimum weight 140 kg, limit revolutions per minute 13,100 RPM

Kawasaki Ninja 400, twin cylinder, minimum weight 150 kg, limit revolutions per minute 10,850 RPM

Honda CBR500R, twin cylinder, minimum weight 143 kg, limit revolutions per minute 11,200 RPM



This one from the FIM handbook

[Pirahna]

His mum died from a heart attack two days later.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/motorsport- ... 40864.html

[wull]

His mum died from a heart attack two days later.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/motorsport- ... 40864.html

Posted in the Portimao thread yesterday

[mangocrazy]

Supersport 300 has all the characteristics of a racing class hastily cobbled together to provide some kind of equivalent to Moto3, while trying appease all the major manufacturers. But the gulf in spec and performance between SSp300 and Moto3 is enormous - 80kg vs. 135 (ish) kg. Right there is a major part of the problem. The other part is engine power. I doubt the SSP300 bikes are even making the power a Moto3 bike makes before you factor in the 55kg difference in weight. The SSP300 bikes are overweight, slow slugs.

[Yorick]

Supersport 300 has all the characteristics of a racing class hastily cobbled together to provide some kind of equivalent to Moto3, while trying appease all the major manufacturers. But the gulf in spec and performance between SSp300 and Moto3 is enormous - 80kg vs. 135 (ish) kg. Right there is a major part of the problem. The other part is engine power. I doubt the SSP300 bikes are even making the power a Moto3 bike makes before you factor in the 55kg difference in weight. The SSP300 bikes are overweight, slow slugs.

Kids need to be riding racing bikes. Not lardy slow road learner bikes.