Snatchy throttles

[David]

It isn't anything I have encountered on le's either.......

[Dickyboy]

Guzzi was very much on off when I got it, losing some of the slack in the cable helped but by all accounts remapping is the way forward with bikes being throttled (excuse the pun) to meet emission regs at a particular rpm

[Trinity765]

The original Street Triple was rumoured to have a snatchy throttle but I never had any issues apart from when the cable needed adjusting/tightening.

[dern]

Doesn't the big SD have engine modes. Whats it like in rain mode or whatever they call it. ?

Don't know, it drops it to 100bhp so never tried it.

Tried it today… a little bit better but slower.

I think the problem is at least partly the slack in the throttle. The kit didn’t arrive today thanks to the postal workers strike. Went out anyway and tried to ride around that and was partially successful. Looking forward to the kit getting here to take the slack out.

[Supermofo]

Lots of people said the 690 Duke had a snatchy throttle, but neither I nor my brother found it bad at all. Occasionally I'd notice it a little in 30 limits but not bad at all and probably only 1-2% of the 30 limits I did. Either I'm not sensitive or found it easy to ride around.

The GSXS is snatchy at certain points in the midrange, I'm guessing where the testing is done. At normal riding it's fine but being on it highlights it more as it can be hard to smoothly wind the throttle on and it upsets the suspension like you are chopping the throttle on/off. But only really been an issue say 5% of the time so far so just riding around it

[The Spin Doctor]

Dragging the rear brake through the off-on transition is a practical workaround that has sorted out the problem for a number of riders I've coached who've talked about the issue.

I suspect that the big twins are always going to be worse for this as they're delivering big thuds of power. And singles are never smooth either - it's something I learned to live with long before fuel injection and cats were being fitted.

[Scootabout]

I think it's fuel cut at closed throttle that's causing the problem. Basically every time you're transitioning from closed to small throttle openings, you're bump starting a stalled bike, and that almost matches what it feels like.

I reckon a remap which gave it just a sniff if fuel at closed throttle would help a lot, but as far as I know you can't remap Hondas and I'm not throwing Power Commander money at a 25hp commuter bike.

My 2004 ST1300 had the problem. I remember reading that some owners fitted a thing called a throttle stop eliminator to solve it.

My current Guzzi V85TT is a little bit snatchy while warming up &/or around town, but leaving it in rain mode helps in those situations.

[Count Steer]

Might be a daft Q? Why is this not a problem on cars? They're FI, emission controlled etc etc. Is it just number of cylinders and mass? (Never noticed any issues on FI 4IL or the upright twin bikes though tbh).

[KungFooBob]

Cars have very weighty flywheels that smooth everything out.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Mass is a big part of it yeah. Plus engines which tend to have much more inertia/bigger flywheels. Think how much more quickly bike engines respond to blips in neutral.

Plus most new cars are FBW throttle so the transition on/off pedal isn't all that simple any more. In fact if you drive new cars back to back with old ones you can really sense that.

EDIT: As I said on page 1 though, it genuinely is a problem in cars and you can really easily get into a feedback loop where the snatchyness of the throttle makes you foot wiggle, which makes you make snatchy throttle inputs and so on. The so called 'tip-in' calibration is a big part of making a car feel good, it's demonstrably something car OEMs get right far more often than bike ones. It's double (or probably squared!) hard on an EV 'cause the engine is capable of responding as fast as you can move you foot - faster even - 'cause it's all just microchips and EM fields. No pesky valves or pistons.

[dern]

This won't be a problem on electric bikes. Smooth as a butter spread silk wrapped baby's bum.

Just sayin'.

Nothing has put me off electric bikes as much as the YouTube channel Marc’s Travels. Really interesting videos about the practicalities of touring on electric bikes. Love the idea of electric power and would have one in a heartbeat except for the fact that keeping them charged looked like a massive faff and would spoil the randomness I like in a day out and also long distance stuff. Also the cost for something that will be outdated in next to no time and have no residual value next to what will presumably be the next generation of the things with more range.

[A_morti]

@dern It's all about use cases, eh? I could watch those same videos and be put off by range anxiety or charging faff, but in reality I live on an island which is 27km long and have a secure garage with power.

When you see bikes like the new Sondors which are now available for only about $5,000 / €5,000 / £4,350, most of us IT nerds could afford one as a second bike for commuting and running errands, and keep that ICE bike gathering cobwebs in the corner, confident in the knowledge we could still go the Long Way Round if we wanted to, and maybe even actually use it for 3 long weekends a year.

That's all just me. YMMV, IDK what you actually use bikes for.

[Taipan]

This won't be a problem on electric bikes. Smooth as a butter spread silk wrapped baby's bum.

Just sayin'.

Nothing has put me off electric bikes as much as the YouTube channel Marc’s Travels. Really interesting videos about the practicalities of touring on electric bikes. Love the idea of electric power and would have one in a heartbeat except for the fact that keeping them charged looked like a massive faff and would spoil the randomness I like in a day out and also long distance stuff. Also the cost for something that will be outdated in next to no time and have no residual value next to what will presumably be the next generation of the things with more range.

I'd love leccy vehicles. I recently changed my bike but looked at the crazily expensive offerings and I'd never see the running cost benefits before I retired and that was based on the leccy prices of a few months ago.

I'm just about to change my car too, but again, it'll be for a fossil fuel offering. I rarely do long journeys, so a leccy car could fit the bill, but again I can't help feeling the technology differs too much between manufacturers and I too worry about the residuals if the tech does eventually standardise.

So, as much as I love the idea of EVs, I don't think I'm ready for them just yet, or them ready for me...

[dern]

That's interesting as that uses the same photo and description as the racetorx spacers at twice the price... https://racetorx.co.uk/product/ktmsk/

That's pretty cheeky really then! That aside, a lot of people seemed to think they were well worth fitting, so hopefully it'll improve things.

These came this morning so will try and fit them in the week and give them a go. 5 small pieces of plastic to take up the play in the fbw throttle. You only need two but they break easily apparently.

Yours for 10 quid delivered from Racetorx.

throttle-spacers.jpg (224.2 KiB) Viewed 881 times

[Sideshow Pob]

I've found that a major contribution to the 'snatchy throttle', as mentioned earlier, is the deceleration fuel cut that most modern Euro 4 and 5 bikes will have programmed into their ECU. Nowadays, rather than having people wanting their bikes flashed to get more power and to correct the fueling for their new exhaust, I'm getting quite a lot of standard bikes in just to flash out the snatchy throttle. I give people the dyno sheet to show a few more bhps but they aren't really interested in that aspect. Normally, they pay the money and ride off and then return 10 minutes later to thank me for completely changing their bike and making it so much nicer to ride.

You could go with a postal flash (a bench flash as it's sometimes called) and just ask for the deceleration fuel cut to be removed, but to be honest, it's far better to have a custom map written to the ECU after a dyno session.

The main system in place that a majority of tuners use is Woolich but there are others too. Woolich covers most of the Jap bikes as well as BMW and Ducati and I also use ECU Studio to flash KTMs, MVs and the Street Triple 765RS.

[dern]

I've found that a major contribution to the 'snatchy throttle', as mentioned earlier, is the deceleration fuel cut that most modern Euro 4 and 5 bikes will have programmed into their ECU. Nowadays, rather than having people wanting their bikes flashed to get more power and to correct the fueling for their new exhaust, I'm getting quite a lot of standard bikes in just to flash out the snatchy throttle. I give people the dyno sheet to show a few more bhps but they aren't really interested in that aspect. Normally, they pay the money and ride off and then return 10 minutes later to thank me for completely changing their bike and making it so much nicer to ride.

You could go with a postal flash (a bench flash as it's sometimes called) and just ask for the deceleration fuel cut to be removed, but to be honest, it's far better to have a custom map written to the ECU after a dyno session.

The main system in place that a majority of tuners use is Woolich but there are others too. Woolich covers most of the Jap bikes as well as BMW and Ducati and I also use ECU Studio to flash KTMs, MVs and the Street Triple 765RS.

Shame you're three and a half hours from me. Could you PM me a quote for a remap anyway please?

[A_morti]

Normally, they pay the money and ride off and then return 10 minutes later to thank me for completely changing their bike and making it so much nicer to ride.
...
You could go with a postal flash...

Any chance you can offer this for a 2018 Honda CB300R?
I'm not interested in paying Power Commander money for it, but it would be very nice to join a raft of people thanking you for sorting out their bike's throttle response.
I understand I'd need a somewhat expensive cable to even connect to the Honda port, but as I'm living abroad a visit to you would not be possible.

[Gregor]

Mass is a big part of it yeah. Plus engines which tend to have much more inertia/bigger flywheels. Think how much more quickly bike engines respond to blips in neutral.

Plus most new cars are FBW throttle so the transition on/off pedal isn't all that simple any more. In fact if you drive new cars back to back with old ones you can really sense that.

EDIT: As I said on page 1 though, it genuinely is a problem in cars and you can really easily get into a feedback loop where the snatchyness of the throttle makes you foot wiggle, which makes you make snatchy throttle inputs and so on. The so called 'tip-in' calibration is a big part of making a car feel good, it's demonstrably something car OEMs get right far more often than bike ones. It's double (or probably squared!) hard on an EV 'cause the engine is capable of responding as fast as you can move you foot - faster even - 'cause it's all just microchips and EM fields. No pesky valves or pistons.

For me our Yaris is awful for it...... pulling away from standtill, it revs then there's a pause then it picks up and revs cleanly, but my missus has no issues.

[Yorick]

Any help with a 2019 GSXR1000 by post?

[Sideshow Pob]

[/quote]

Shame you're three and a half hours from me. Could you PM me a quote for a remap anyway please?
[/quote]

PM'd