In todays news...

[Count Steer]

No one has commented on who "the markets" actually are. Mostly rich people who will get even richer by shorting (selling stuff they dont own) stuff.

Like people who short the £ to enrich themselves and their clients? At least one of them think the current treasury actions are He's a bit swivel eyed but a cracking singer.

[Ant]

I see that after Labour suspend and MP for hate speech and racism, another Labour MP is at it.....

https://order-order.com/2022/09/28/shad ... xKDD97xQOc

[Cousin Jack]

No one has commented on who "the markets" actually are. Mostly rich people who will get even richer by shorting (selling stuff they dont own) stuff.

That and your pension fund.

As I understand it the pension funds and insurance companies are the ones hurting. They have 'outsourced' the management of gilts to specialist trading firms, who do the buying/selling to make sure the pension funds have cash money to pay out as required. The problem is now that the whole mechanism has gone tits up, and the pension funds are out of cash. They could tell the gilt traders to sell more gilts, but then the price would drop further, and they would need to sell even more gilts......................... Mainly because some traders in Asia sold off a load of gilts overnight, and spooked the market

In my book it is yet another example of 'trading' running out of control, rather like slicing and dicing sub-prime mortgages in the USA. Yes, there is a need for trading, options, futures, derivatives, etc, but it should be linked to physical reality. The problems start when trading becomes a game on its own, often far larger than the physical stuff it relates to.

[Docca]

I see that after Labour suspend and MP for hate speech and racism, another Labour MP is at it.....

https://order-order.com/2022/09/28/shad ... xKDD97xQOc

I wonder if Boris ever made any unsavoury comments in public regarding race?


Also: That the IMF and, well, most of the same world seems to think we’re on a course for financial ruin- of our own doing, does anyone else still back this government ? This isn’t a ‘but labour this/lib dem that’ - this is this government.

Brexit was a failure and continues to be a failure
Boris Johnson’s reign was a disaster
Now we have an even bigger clown playing Yahtzee with your cash- everyone cool with that?

I think of Kent and Essex as the redneck counties of the UK, where you could stick a blue rosette on pig and it would still win- but it’s got a lot of blue rinses per capita. I wonder if it will be soon when they put down their banjo and pick up their pitchforks

[Mr Moofo]

I see that after Labour suspend and MP for hate speech and racism, another Labour MP is at it.....

https://order-order.com/2022/09/28/shad ... xKDD97xQOc

I think of Kent and Essex as the redneck counties of the UK, where you could stick a blue rosette on pig and it would still win- but it’s got a lot of blue rinses per capita. I wonder if it will be soon when they put down their banjo and pick up their pitchforks

Wonderfully patronising from the intellectual left in Berkshire sipping their Macchiatos , uncorking their Chablis and planning Tuscany for next year

[mangocrazy]

I see that after Labour suspend and MP for hate speech and racism, another Labour MP is at it.....

https://order-order.com/2022/09/28/shad ... xKDD97xQOc

I think of Kent and Essex as the redneck counties of the UK, where you could stick a blue rosette on pig and it would still win- but it’s got a lot of blue rinses per capita. I wonder if it will be soon when they put down their banjo and pick up their pitchforks

Wonderfully patronising from the intellectual left in Berkshire sipping their Macchiatos , uncorking their Chablis and planning Tuscany for next year

Upset that Docca failed to include East Sussex in his comment?

[Mr Moofo]

I think of Kent and Essex as the redneck counties of the UK, where you could stick a blue rosette on pig and it would still win- but it’s got a lot of blue rinses per capita. I wonder if it will be soon when they put down their banjo and pick up their pitchforks

Wonderfully patronising from the intellectual left in Berkshire sipping their Macchiatos , uncorking their Chablis and planning Tuscany for next year

Upset that Docca failed to include East Sussex in his comment?

You obviously no nothing about East Sussex.

[Count Steer]

No one has commented on who "the markets" actually are. Mostly rich people who will get even richer by shorting (selling stuff they dont own) stuff.

That and your pension fund.

As I understand it the pension funds and insurance companies are the ones hurting. They have 'outsourced' the management of gilts to specialist trading firms, who do the buying/selling to make sure the pension funds have cash money to pay out as required. The problem is now that the whole mechanism has gone tits up, and the pension funds are out of cash. They could tell the gilt traders to sell more gilts, but then the price would drop further, and they would need to sell even more gilts......................... Mainly because some traders in Asia sold off a load of gilts overnight, and spooked the market

In my book it is yet another example of 'trading' running out of control, rather like slicing and dicing sub-prime mortgages in the USA. Yes, there is a need for trading, options, futures, derivatives, etc, but it should be linked to physical reality. The problems start when trading becomes a game on its own, often far larger than the physical stuff it relates to.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of how markets and pension funds operate and who created the environment in which they do, that's the way things work. Would it be naive to expect a PM and Chancellor to understand this before they embark on a spree of voodoo economics and magical realism? Then asking traders not to short the pound? There's uncapped bonuses to be made dontcha know?

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum. They've done more damage than George Soros managed. At least Thatcher and Lawson got the economy toughened up and focused on 'sound money' before they pulled any big levers.

[Mr Moofo]

^ they do seem to have taken irresponsible risks which are costing the man in the street a lot of money. Whilst rewarding their hedge fund and speculator mates with market instability and less tax. Just an amazingly divisive budget.

It's odd how they are suddenly making Boris and Rushi look competent.

Truss , like Patel, never ever achieved anything significant in the department she ran. How she got the gig seems to similar to the X factor - the most bland , MOR appealing to traditional voters.
Please can we have an election ?

[Horse]

I see that after Labour suspend and MP for hate speech and racism, another Labour MP is at it.....

https://order-order.com/2022/09/28/shad ... xKDD97xQOc

I think of Kent and Essex as the redneck counties of the UK, where you could stick a blue rosette on pig and it would still win- but it’s got a lot of blue rinses per capita. I wonder if it will be soon when they put down their banjo and pick up their pitchforks

Wonderfully patronising from the intellectual left in Berkshire sipping their Macchiatos , uncorking their Chablis and planning Tuscany for next year

IIRC, he's in Surrey

[Count Steer]

^ they do seem to have taken irresponsible risks which are costing the man in the street a lot of money. Whilst rewarding their hedge fund and speculator mates with market instability and less tax. Just an amazingly divisive budget.

I think you (and others on this thread) have rather got it a bit upside down, it's the banks that have been rewarding the hedge fund and speculator mates with monstrous QE and free money to gamble with. Truss and Kwasi (ill-advisedly) tried to force them to take some of that money back out of circulation and raise interest rates, but the BoE and their real overlords have stamped back down on it.

That requires me to believe, for example, that the Fed* is completely decoupled from the government of the USA. However, it is the government that sets their key objectives. If they were acting against the will of the elected government (who choose the officials) I would be a little surprised that the remit and control of it hadn't been changed.

* and Bank of Japan, BoE etc and their respective governments etc.

[Greenman]

And another thing - if trickle down economics don't work - how come everyone had shitloads more money to spend when the bank poured billions into other people's pockets via QE in 2020 and 2021?

The logic doesn't stack up does it.

Trickle down economics apparently don't work, but the bank have restarted QE to help the man in the street swerve ruin...so are they putting that money directly into your bank account, or into someone else's bank account so that it trickles down to you...

And those bank accounts are held by whom?

Do you think the trickle down will really reach the bottom without the top and middle creaming off of it?

No doubt by the time it hits the people that actually need the money there will be hardly anything left.

I like the analogy that trickle done economics are like the rich letting you lick their plate after they have eaten and you thanking them for it! it really is just like that.

As i have been banging on about for fucking years, a resolve to a failing economy is to make sure the people earning the highest wages and producing the highest profits pay their taxes in this country.

All the tories do is make up some shitty plan using loads of jargon the normal man cannot fully comprehend to swerve away from having to make their mates pay what they should to support the country.

The position we are in now has been created by the rich and corrupt moving all of their taxes away to their special little havens using loopholes set out by their mates in similar roles, until this is resolved then i don't see why the small man should be taxed or forced to scrimp any more than they already have to!

[Mr Moofo]

^ they do seem to have taken irresponsible risks which are costing the man in the street a lot of money. Whilst rewarding their hedge fund and speculator mates with market instability and less tax. Just an amazingly divisive budget.

I think you (and others on this thread) have rather got it a bit upside down, it's the banks that have been rewarding the hedge fund and speculator mates with monstrous QE and free money to gamble with. Truss and Kwasi (ill-advisedly) tried to force them to take some of that money back out of circulation and raise interest rates, but the BoE and their real overlords have stamped back down on it.

This has got nothing to do with saving the man in the street from ruin, it's about keeping that money flowing in the markets because those billions don't make themselves you know.

I realise that ( but it is kind of the same thing)
And so the BoE is working independently of the governments strategy? Or with it's blessing?

[Greenman]

And those bank accounts are held by whom?

Do you think the trickle down will really reach the bottom without the top and middle creaming off of it?

Tell that to the Bank of England then matey, they've just started doing it again and they're saying they're doing it to help the man in the street.

But in fairness, if you think none of that QE money reached the man in the street then what has he been using to pay for all the shit bought in the last couple of years?

The BoE are doing it to keep their rich overlords rich, but as a consequence some does trickle through.

They have to let some trickle down to make sure us stupid poor fuckers (i'm pretty sure that's how they see us) don't start getting smart and move away from our delusional thinking that the banks and gov are doing the best for us.

I'd love to turn on the BBC news of a morning before work to see them stating how much the super rich and major corps aren't paying in tax and a gov official stating what they are going to do to make sure they pay what they should, instead of telling us loads of shitty lies that probably 75% of the population will believe will help them in the long run, if that actually happened i would be a full blown tory supporter, but it never will as they won't want to upset their mates and quite clearly don't really care about the economy but instead only have agendas to keep things how they are even if it totally cripples the country and sends poorer earners into full poverty!

The only thing that can bring change is change, not shifting a bit to the left or right a little bit!

I heard that 1 in 50 people are homeless in this country now, total madness. This is not a 3'rd world country, yet! So so where is all the money going?

[Count Steer]

Trickle down economics apparently don't work, but the bank have restarted QE to help the man in the street swerve ruin...so are they putting that money directly into your bank account, or into someone else's bank account so that it trickles down to you...

If QE kept mortgage interest rates down I suppose you could say that it meant people kept more money that was in their bank accounts (but if it put up house prices it's possibly a moot point).
Similarly, if the current £65bn stopped pension funds going bust it could very greatly impact on money in people's bank accounts (again with the caveat that the pension funds didn't have to be taken into the government's last resort scheme and get funded by the taxpayer through tax increases).

I suppose, rather than giving it to the few* and hoping it trickles down far enough I'd rather they spent it on education and job creation a little more directly and uniformly.

* Worldwide, 50% of it is in the hands of 1% of the population. Buying a Picasso might help keep the auction houses going but they're not a big employer.

[Mr Moofo]

I think it's fair to say the BoE isn't currently operating in harmony with what the government are trying to force.

Obviously ... but that is not usual.
It is important to say that the Euro isn't actually doing that well currently, either

[Count Steer]

Liz Truss is a Chartered Accountant who is in favour of legalising cannabis and hates bankers.
Kwasi is an ex-banker who knows what's happening and is trying to turn it about face.

Uncapping bonuses gave them a real kick in the teeth.

Kwarteng is the living embodiment of 'he rose without trace'. His parliamentary career has, until now, been less than stellar. People that know him say he's very bright but a bit random/eccentric at times.

The Conservative Party Conference will be interesting this year. (There are calls to cancel it, ostensibly to focus on sorting out the current mess but possibly to stop them fighting like cats in a sack, in public).

[Mr. Dazzle]

KK thinks like an academic, lovely bloke actually, but too clever for his own good, literally. He thinks he can switch off the insane money supply to the markets like it's an academic exercise. In theory, whilst painful for some, what he's done could work, in reality he'll be lucky not to get bumped off.

That's exactly the impression I get....if you read through his history, he's won load of prizes and scholarships and has more degrees than a thermometer. He won University Challenge too, dontchaknow.

I get the sense he's been caught out by things acting the way they do rather than the way they 'should'.

[Pirahna]

Liz Truss is a Chartered Accountant who is in favour of legalising cannabis and hates bankers.

One of the last things Truss did as Foreign Secretary was to stop a bill legalising cannabis going through the Barbados parliament. They're not very happy about it.

[Cousin Jack]

After some careful analysis I am convinced that our present Govt is doomed. And so too is the one that replaces it.

Industry - needs a low interest rate and strong £
Mortgage holders - want a low interest rate
Strong £ - needs a high interest rate
Low Inflation - needs a high interest rate
Middle class voters - want low mortgage rates, low taxes and high house prices
Taxpayers - want low taxes
People on Benefit - want more money and lower house prices
Lower income voters - want lower house prices and lower taxes
Bankers - want to get seriously rich.
The NHS and Education - needs more money
Government - just wants to get re-elected

If they put taxes down, the £ bombs, inflation rises, and the BoE has a hissy fit.
If they put taxes up they get voted out.
If they allow inflation to rise, so does homelessness, serious discontent, and they get voted out.
If they clamp down on inflation, mortgage rates rise, house prices fall, and they get voted out.
If they do sod all, bankers manipulate various markets and get seriously rich.
If they put up benefits, they will need to borrow more, and either taxes rise or the £ bombs. Either way they get voted out.
If they give Education and the NHS loads of money, they will need to borrow more, and either taxes rise or the £ bombs. Either way they get voted out. And the NHS and Education will STILL need more money.

The only way I can see out of this conundrum is if we all become bankers.