MCN : Meet the Hydra: Could this hydrogen-powered machine be the future of motorcycling?

[weeksy]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/202 ... cept-bike/



Electric motorcycles are undoubtedly part of the future, but a futuristic looking, hydrogen powered concept bike is piquing the interest of hydrogen technology manufacturers.

The Hydra is the brainchild of Anton Brousseau, Andre Taylforth, and Anton Guzhov, who met while working for renowned firm Kiska Design.

Mr Taylforth said: “We all worked about a table apart in the transportation design area, so naturally while working together we became good friends.

“Since we all left KISKA, we all went on different career journeys but quickly ended up working together professionally again as freelancers, and for personal projects like the Hydra Bike.

“Our interest in motorcycles started fairly early for each of us, for me it was riding motocross as a kid. For Anton B, it was an early fascination in sport bikes that led him to vehicle design and Anton G has been drawing since early childhood different mechanical objects including motorcycles.”

Although the Hydra was created as a thought-experiment to, as Andre says ‘explore a hydrogen platform and see how far we could push it’, he believes the fundamental components are there, in terms of what core elements are needed to make a working hydrogen motorcycle.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Feck me, it's the army surplus special, it's even got the turret on top, or is that Sizewell B?

[MrLongbeard]

Can I have a concave tank top please to rest my belly in rather than on.

[Mussels]

Is that an R2 unit in the middle?

[Count Steer]

I like the way the Hydrogen tank offers belly support.

I did read the article but am no wiser as to how it works.

[Skub]

I like the theory better than the battery bikes option.

The...uh..visuals need a while longer in the pot,though.

[ChrisW]

Could paint the top of the tank like R2D2

[Mr Moofo]

That's quite cool

[The Spin Doctor]

I like the way the Hydrogen tank offers belly support.

I did read the article but am no wiser as to how it works.

It's powered by a fuel cell.

The problem with 'out there' designs like this is that they do nothing to encourage your average rider to consider them as a possible alternative to existing bikes.

[porter_jamie]

I'd rather have a h2 IC engine as they sound just like a petrol one but only water comes out the exhaust. I work with hydrogen and hydrogen/diesel dual fuel engines and they are already working. Its just a case of waiting for h2 to be available in the petrol station. We have a fleet of Toyota mirais which are fuel cell vehicles. Only issue again is nowhere to fill it apart from at work.

[porter_jamie]

The forks are dogshit

[MingtheMerciless]

I'd rather have a h2 IC engine as they sound just like a petrol one but only water comes out the exhaust. I work with hydrogen and hydrogen/diesel dual fuel engines and they are already working. Its just a case of waiting for h2 to be available in the petrol station. We have a fleet of Toyota mirais which are fuel cell vehicles. Only issue again is nowhere to fill it apart from at work.

How "squaddie" and "80000 miles of living by the sea" proof is the H2 containment for cars? I know NASA are using cryogenic H2 but they are forever having leak issues with that pesky small molecule.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Electric motorcycles are undoubtedly part of the future, but....

It's still electric.

Classic MCN

[mangocrazy]

It's the bastard offspring of the Bat Bike.

[porter_jamie]

I'd rather have a h2 IC engine as they sound just like a petrol one but only water comes out the exhaust. I work with hydrogen and hydrogen/diesel dual fuel engines and they are already working. Its just a case of waiting for h2 to be available in the petrol station. We have a fleet of Toyota mirais which are fuel cell vehicles. Only issue again is nowhere to fill it apart from at work.

How "squaddie" and "80000 miles of living by the sea" proof is the H2 containment for cars? I know NASA are using cryogenic H2 but they are forever having leak issues with that pesky small molecule.

Yes its the smallest one. Comes in pairs though. The pressures are quite surprising. It's delivered on a trailer in 200bar bottles. It is then 'intensified ' up to 450bar for trucks, and upto 900bar (really) for cars. The cars run at 700bar but you need 900 so you can shove it in. It also takes a fuck ton of energy to pump it up to those crazy pressures. And it also takes a fuck to to electrolise h2 from water too. A mirai takes about 6kg. It will go about 350 or 400 odd miles on that. Takes a few minutes to fill up. I'm not sure what the cost per kilo is but I estimate it to be around 20 quid. It has the same problem as a battery car as in the exh emissions are zero but you are still using dinosaurs to power it. At least it doesn't have a massive battery, just a small one.
Internal combustion h2 engines are the way forward, toyota or yamaha have already made a v8. Cheap to make, using existing technology, no impossible to recycle battery, nice exhaust note. I can see f1 using that instead of yawntastic fully electric.

[The Spin Doctor]

I'd rather have a h2 IC engine as they sound just like a petrol one but only water comes out the exhaust.

Not completely correct - they produce trace amount of CO2 from burning lubricating oil, and ANY combustion process that uses air as the source for oxygen produces NOx pollutants. Even a wood burning stove produces NOx and the high flame temperature from burning hydrogen produces significant quantities of NOx. So you still need a cat to clean up the exhaust emissions - I'm not sure how effectively.

[porter_jamie]

yes you are right burn anything in air you make nox. however we tuned one to run at such a low bmep the nox is effectively none, ie as certified we can say zero emissions. yes the oil carryover counts but its very very small. Cats are for hydrocarbons. There is no carbon. You could run an SCR for nox if you need to run higher combustion temps. the dual fuel engines run a cat (for the diesel) and scrs (for the nox)

[The Spin Doctor]

yes you are right burn anything in air you make nox. however we tuned one to run at such a low bmep the nox is effectively none, ie as certified we can say zero emissions. yes the oil carryover counts but its very very small. Cats are for hydrocarbons. There is no carbon. You could run an SCR for nox if you need to run higher combustion temps. the dual fuel engines run a cat (for the diesel) and scrs (for the nox)

But people are going to demand equivalent hp from a hydrogen ICE so I doubt near-zero NOx is a possibility. The problem is the wording of the zero tailpipe emissions goal of the UK and EU. Technically, a hydrogen ICE is not going to be zero emissions so there is already a significant push back against them from the active transport lobby who claim they will just be carbon-neutral and not 'clean'. I think it's important to get the details out in the open and accurate, so everyone understands what the issues are.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Plus the fact your hydrogen ICE will be slower, noisier, less reliable and more expensive to run than a hydrogen fuel cell equivalent. They'll not catch on 'big style' for those far more fundamental reasons IMO.

[porter_jamie]

Plus the fact your hydrogen ICE will be slower, noisier, less reliable and more expensive to run than a hydrogen fuel cell equivalent. They'll not catch on 'big style' for those far more fundamental reasons IMO.

fuel cells are very expensive though, and ice engines are very cheap, and easy to make using existing equipment, with a huge supply chain to call upon. i predict passenger cars will probably be fuel cell, small cars full battery as they dont need to go very far, and small trucks probably dual/mono fuel h2. big stuff like ships will be ammonia, and sports cars ice h2 simply cos they sound nice.

cant comment on reliablility of fuel cells. the only car production ones ive seen are toyota so i fully expect them to be bullet proof but ice engines are extremely reliable,
this all hinges on h2 being available, and being green - there are massive solar farms being built in africa to make green h2/ammonia to be exported to yurp.