Energy bills

[Mussels]

The immediate problems are more to do with Germany selling it's storage to Russia who then left it empty, now they are are trying to outbid everyone else to fill it.

[demographic]

Awsome stuff, its Ze Germans fault that we fucked up. Can we blame Maggie as well?

[Hoonercat]

The immediate problems are more to do with Germany selling it's storage to Russia who then left it empty, now they are are trying to outbid everyone else to fill it.

Rehden? Germany seized control months ago and have been filling it since May. Is it just the Germans trying to outbid everyone, or is it everyone trying to outbid everyone else?

[Hoonercat]

The UK's gas supply problem is lack of storage capacity ...

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... 022-06-29/

Britain has since the end of March exported record amounts of gas to Europe, the National Grid (NG.L) said on Wednesday, as EU countries seek to fill their gas reserves to protect against any further interruptions in flows from Russia.

Britain often has gas to spare during the lower demand summer months and very little storage.

As a result around 75 million cubic metres (mcm) per day have been flowing to Europe, a spokesperson for the National Grid, which oversees the country's energy supplies, told Reuters.

... which is why the Rough storage facility is being recommissioned.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-08-30/

Closed in 2017 for being 'uneconomical and unsafe' when gas prices were low, reopened in 2022 when gas prices are at all-time highs; the perfect time to buy lots of gas for storage
We'll just ignore that industry experts warned that it's closure could leave the UK exposed to higher import prices. Oh, and this...

Centrica said it will reopen the facility in stages, following previous concerns over the site having reached the end of its design life.

However, those concerns have been echoed by some analysts who cautioned there are “many questions” over how realistic it is to expect even 25% of its 100bcf capacity to be operational this winter.....
“In other words, the best we could hope for would be for Rough to meet 12% of demand over a 19-day period (or 9.5% during extreme cold spells when the gas would be most needed),”

[Hoonercat]

Germany announces €65bn package to shield consumers and business from rising energy bills, bringing the total to €100bn so far.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62788447


Meanwhile, Liz Truss says she'll sort something out next week if she's elected as PM

[Count Steer]

Closed in 2017 for being 'uneconomical and unsafe' when gas prices were low, reopened in 2022 when gas prices are at all-time highs; the perfect time to buy lots of gas for storage
We'll just ignore that industry experts warned that it's closure could leave the UK exposed to higher import prices. Oh, and this...

Centrica said it will reopen the facility in stages, following previous concerns over the site having reached the end of its design life.

However, those concerns have been echoed by some analysts who cautioned there are “many questions” over how realistic it is to expect even 25% of its 100bcf capacity to be operational this winter.....
“In other words, the best we could hope for would be for Rough to meet 12% of demand over a 19-day period (or 9.5% during extreme cold spells when the gas would be most needed),”

Some people appear to blame Centrica for shutting Rough. They're an independent, commercial company and their responsibility extends to securing and delivering supplies for their customers. Government made the decision it wasn't needed as part of their energy security strategy, wouldn't sub it so Centrica said fair enough and decommissioned it. Lo! It came to pass....

Wonder how much gas they'll need to purge it of whatever's in it? Clearly, it's not full of methane.

I think they had the idea of pulling gas out of distant and/or difficult fields and pumping it into near-shore, depleted ones as routine at one time but I didn't hear much more after the original story.

There was talk of salt cavity storage in Cheshire too - looks like they're thinking of using some for hydrogen storage.

[Mussels]

If there's not enough gas to go round then state subsidies won't fix the problem. Unless there is enough and panic buying is the problem.

[Count Steer]

If there's not enough gas to go round then state subsidies won't fix the problem. Unless there is enough and panic buying is the problem.

If the price goes up enough, there won't be a shortage.

[Hoonercat]

If there's not enough gas to go round then state subsidies won't fix the problem. Unless there is enough and panic buying is the problem.

The EU appears to be well ahead of schedule, news of that dropped next-day gas prices by 22% earlier in the week. China's economic problems have left them with a surplus which is being sold to Europe (probably originally Russian gas), not good for Russia's hopes of partly replacing the EU market with China though.
The UK doesn't appear to have a problem getting gas at the moment, it has something of an open tap from Norway and LNG deliveries make up the rest. But those deliveries might become harder to get the closer we get to winter, given that the Asian market is being squeezed (Australia has said they may have to restrict or completely stop exports to ensure it has enough for itself). That would be a problem for the UK, given its lack of storage and reliance on LNG imports, it could find itself having to put in bids well above market price to attract deliveries.

[Hoonercat]

Closed in 2017 for being 'uneconomical and unsafe' when gas prices were low, reopened in 2022 when gas prices are at all-time highs; the perfect time to buy lots of gas for storage
We'll just ignore that industry experts warned that it's closure could leave the UK exposed to higher import prices. Oh, and this...

Centrica said it will reopen the facility in stages, following previous concerns over the site having reached the end of its design life.

However, those concerns have been echoed by some analysts who cautioned there are “many questions” over how realistic it is to expect even 25% of its 100bcf capacity to be operational this winter.....
“In other words, the best we could hope for would be for Rough to meet 12% of demand over a 19-day period (or 9.5% during extreme cold spells when the gas would be most needed),”

Some people appear to blame Centrica for shutting Rough. They're an independent, commercial company and their responsibility extends to securing and delivering supplies for their customers. Government made the decision it wasn't needed as part of their energy security strategy, wouldn't sub it so Centrica said fair enough and decommissioned it. Lo! It came to pass....

Wonder how much gas they'll need to purge it of whatever's in it? Clearly, it's not full of methane.

I think they had the idea of pulling gas out of distant and/or difficult fields and pumping it into near-shore, depleted ones as routine at one time but I didn't hear much more after the original story.

There was talk of salt cavity storage in Cheshire too - looks like they're thinking of using some for hydrogen storage.

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/n ... -facility/

[Wscad]

We had a multi fuel fire put in late 2018. The neighbour across from me takes her dog for a walk, in the woods behind our house.

Most days the dog delivers a lump of wood the length/width of your arm.

The dog heats our house for 3 or 4 months.

I love that dog and it gets half a oxo cube when I see it

[Count Steer]

We had a multi fuel fire put in late 2018. The neighbour across from me takes her dog for a walk, in the woods behind our house.

Most days the dog delivers a lump of wood the length/width of your arm.

The dog heats our house for 3 or 4 months.

I love that dog and it gets half a oxo cube when I see it

Oxo cubes are 21% salt! Maybe better to keep the dog healthier for longer and give it a dog biscuit.

The woodsman at various places locally always said that they had a surplus of wood from trimming and felling old and damaged trees. I expect that will change pretty soon although I don't suppose they'll want to dry it.

[Mussels]

We had a multi fuel fire put in late 2018. The neighbour across from me takes her dog for a walk, in the woods behind our house.

Most days the dog delivers a lump of wood the length/width of your arm.

The dog heats our house for 3 or 4 months.

I love that dog and it gets half a oxo cube when I see it

Oxo cubes are 21% salt! Maybe better to keep the dog healthier for longer and give it a dog biscuit.

The woodsman at various places locally always said that they had a surplus of wood from trimming and felling old and damaged trees. I expect that will change pretty soon although I don't suppose they'll want to dry it.

Drying is the kicker since the law was changed to kill this market, look out for adverts for wood trimmings by the yard.

[Supermofo]

I have a wood that goes for about 10 miles that's a mins walk from my house. It's full of fallen logs esp recently as the drought seems to have killed a few. Only way I can burn them though is in my patio wood burner which won't be much good in Dec

What's the best method of drying? My mate uses kiln dried for his pizza oven but I just stick some in the garage for a bit when using it for the patio burner.

[slowsider]

I have a wood that goes for about 10 miles that's a mins walk from my house. It's full of fallen logs esp recently as the drought seems to have killed a few. Only way I can burn them though is in my patio wood burner which won't be much good in Dec

What's the best method of drying? My mate uses kiln dried for his pizza oven but I just stick some in the garage for a bit when using it for the patio burner.

Split and stack and leave somewhere the breeze can get to them. For 12 months.

[Mussels]

Wood on the ground isn't so good and I'm guessing it doesn't belong to you. Look for local treee surgeons that sell what they cut down.

[DefTrap]

I used to burn stuff that was essentially windfalls (albeit dried appropriately). It appeals to my desire to be a bit of a cheapskate but in truth it doesn't burn that brilliantly (compared to the alternative), is often kinda stinky and is probably somewhat worse for the environment.

I switched to wood pellets last year anyway. Inevitably the price of those will go through the roof now as well ..
Yep, I just checked - doubled from last winter. FFS

[Count Steer]

I used to burn stuff that was essentially windfalls (albeit dried appropriately). It appeals to my desire to be a bit of a cheapskate but in truth it doesn't burn that brilliantly (compared to the alternative), is often kinda stinky and is probably somewhat worse for the environment.

I switched to wood pellets last year anyway. Inevitably the price of those will go through the roof now as well ..
Yep, I just checked - doubled from last winter. FFS

My previous neighbour used to 'harvest' the woodland behind us (the woods did belong to him). Did't go crazy just felled one every now and again then chunked it up. (Not sure your supposed to but he could argue it was necessary thinning etc).

The big problem was drying it. He put up a thing like a large tank on legs, with what looked like cooling water pipes running to it...right by our boundary fence*...which he'd load with damp wood then burn wood to dry it.

Mon dieu it stank the neighbourhood out! He started doing it at night but every house around had to clamp all their windows shut.

They've gone now...bought a mini-stately home and even more land from the receivers selling off a bankrupt rock star's estate. Fortunately his neighbours are not close.

* acres of land and he puts it 20ft from our lounge

[Mussels]

I used to burn stuff that was essentially windfalls (albeit dried appropriately). It appeals to my desire to be a bit of a cheapskate but in truth it doesn't burn that brilliantly (compared to the alternative), is often kinda stinky and is probably somewhat worse for the environment.

I switched to wood pellets last year anyway. Inevitably the price of those will go through the roof now as well ..
Yep, I just checked - doubled from last winter. FFS

My previous neighbour used to 'harvest' the woodland behind us (the woods did belong to him). Did't go crazy just felled one every now and again then chunked it up. (Not sure your supposed to but he could argue it was necessary thinning etc).

The big problem was drying it. He put up a thing like a large tank on legs, with what looked like cooling water pipes running to it...right by our boundary fence*...which he'd load with damp wood then burn wood to dry it.

Mon dieu it stank the neighbourhood out! He started doing it at night but every house around had to clamp all their windows shut.

They've gone now...bought a mini-stately home and even more land from the receivers selling off a bankrupt rock star's estate. Fortunately his neighbours are not close.

* acres of land and he puts it 20ft from our lounge

That sounds like he was making charcoal.

[Count Steer]

I used to burn stuff that was essentially windfalls (albeit dried appropriately). It appeals to my desire to be a bit of a cheapskate but in truth it doesn't burn that brilliantly (compared to the alternative), is often kinda stinky and is probably somewhat worse for the environment.

I switched to wood pellets last year anyway. Inevitably the price of those will go through the roof now as well ..
Yep, I just checked - doubled from last winter. FFS

My previous neighbour used to 'harvest' the woodland behind us (the woods did belong to him). Did't go crazy just felled one every now and again then chunked it up. (Not sure your supposed to but he could argue it was necessary thinning etc).

The big problem was drying it. He put up a thing like a large tank on legs, with what looked like cooling water pipes running to it...right by our boundary fence*...which he'd load with damp wood then burn wood to dry it.

Mon dieu it stank the neighbourhood out! He started doing it at night but every house around had to clamp all their windows shut.

They've gone now...bought a mini-stately home and even more land from the receivers selling off a bankrupt rock star's estate. Fortunately his neighbours are not close.

* acres of land and he puts it 20ft from our lounge

That sounds like he was making charcoal.

It looked a bit like that but the tank was raised a good few feet off the ground. Not like any charcoal kiln I've seen before. When the new people came to view they thought it was an industrial style, raised hot tub! At his new place he's had 1000s of saplings planted. Don't know if he's found the dump yet - where the previous owner of his new place was allegedly taking ££s to let folk dump some iffy stuff.