Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

[Yorick]

Hey Deadpool, I saw your bike on another thread, looks cool, except for the swords.

He won't know what a bike is. He's just a troll.

[DEADPOOL]

He won't know what a bike is. He's just a troll.

Lifelong biker as it happens but I appreciate you have nothing better to do than whinge about me.

Never mind that the west is engaged in a pointless war that will kill hundreds of thousands of people and plunge the whole of Europe into fuel poverty. At least by the end we'll get, err, someone remind me, what's the point of killing all these people? A secure NATO border on the Russian front? A free, democratic Ukraine?

Or is this just history repeating itself because capitalism needs a decent war every once in a while to reset the balance...

[DEADPOOL]

Anyhow, let's just stick to the facts:

April 2021 DEADPOOL: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Forum: Nope. Sabre rattling. They wouldn't dare. You're a madman.

February 2022: Russia invades.

Forum: you're still a madman even if everything you say is eventually proved correct. And (bizarrely) why do you keep banging on about the invasion in this thread about the invasion.

[Yambo]

Anyhow, let's just stick to the facts:

April 2021 DEADPOOL: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Forum: Nope. Sabre rattling. They wouldn't dare. You're a madman.

February 2022: Russia invades.

Forum: you're still a madman even if everything you say is eventually proved correct. And (bizarrely) why do you keep banging on about the invasion in this thread about the invasion.

I never really got your stance on the war in Ukraine, sorry, Russia's special military operation, and I still don't.

Do you think that the Ukrainians should have welcomed the Russian soldiers with open arms, just allowed themselves to be subsumed into the new Russian Federation? That the West should have just let it happen?

If you do, you're a fool.

As for your other posts, they were, in the main, having a pop at past and current US Presidents and you shied away from the conflict on Europe's Western borders. One in particular shows that your ability to predict is much the same as any other fool's.

I'll be surprised if JB lasts six months.

I guess you're surprised.

[DEADPOOL]

Thanks for asking. No I think NATO should have taken Putin seriously when he strongly objected to having a potential NATO member on a highly contentious border. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was in fact a treaty with Russia concerning Ukraine becoming a member of the EU/NATO. I'll have to Google it, someone here should know more.

But this tension has certainly been building up long enough. To my mind this is more a failure of politics than anything else. "We" called his bluff and guess what, Putin wasn't bluffing...

Once it did kick off, the sanctions nonsense is just that. Non sense. We're buying a load more LNG from China who are buying it from Russia at vastly inflated prices. Putin called our bluff when Europe said it didn't need their oil and gas. Basically, that was a bluff. Turns out we do need it.

[Mr. Dazzle]

You're probably thinking of the terms under which Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal at the end of the cold war.

[DEADPOOL]

I'll be surprised if JB lasts six months.

I guess you're surprised.

In my defence he is dead from the neck up. They are keeping him moving somehow. Animatronics??

[DEADPOOL]

You're probably thinking of the terms under which Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal at the end of the cold war.

I thought I saw something more closely relating to the potential for Ukr to join the EU with the risk of subsequently joining NATO. It was some deep dark historical stuff though and I'm not in the mood to do the heavy work involved in surfing for that, especially with all the needless personal insults...

[Mussels]

Putin has used lots of dubious history to justify what he's doing, in his eyes every country that was in the USSR belongs to Russia.

[Hoonercat]

Anyhow, let's just stick to the facts:

April 2021 DEADPOOL: Is Russia just about to invade Ukraine?

Forum: Nope. Sabre rattling. They wouldn't dare. You're a madman.

February 2022: Russia invades.

Forum: you're still a madman even if everything you say is eventually proved correct. And (bizarrely) why do you keep banging on about the invasion in this thread about the invasion.

Facts? How about a question isn't the same as a prediction? How about no one thought you were a madman regarding Russia and Ukraine, the jibes were about your Biden bashing antics at a time when you were derailing every other thread in the same manner? (The actual topic subject barely got a mention until the invasion started).
How about your prediction (when the invasion began) that 'by the time you finish reading this it will all be over'. Or your prediction that 'Russia will have full control of Ukraine'? Not to mention your prediction that China would invade Taiwan (is there an infinite timespan for these predictions?)

[Hoonercat]

Thanks for asking. No I think NATO should have taken Putin seriously when he strongly objected to having a potential NATO member on a highly contentious border. I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was in fact a treaty with Russia concerning Ukraine becoming a member of the EU/NATO. I'll have to Google it, someone here should know more.

But this tension has certainly been building up long enough. To my mind this is more a failure of politics than anything else. "We" called his bluff and guess what, Putin wasn't bluffing...

Ukraine isn't a member despite waiting 14 years, arguably because Russia invaded Georgia 4 months after both countries were told they would be allowed to join NATO.. How much more seriously should NATO have taken Putins objections?

[DEADPOOL]

Putin has used lots of dubious history to justify what he's doing, in his eyes every country that was in the USSR belongs to Russia.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Yes he has made it his mission to restore the former Soviet Bloc. We have known that for some time and our politicians too.

Either our political leaders have made a huge mistake or they took a calculated risk, knowing the effect that might have on Europe, The West and without being over dramatic, the world economy. They made a mistake that we all get to pay for. None of those responsible will have to endure the hardship we suffer due to their mistake.

[DEADPOOL]

Facts? How about a question isn't the same as a prediction? How about no one thought you were a madman regarding Russia and Ukraine, the jibes were about your Biden bashing antics at a time when you were derailing every other thread in the same manner? (The actual topic subject barely got a mention until the invasion started).
How about your prediction (when the invasion began) that 'by the time you finish reading this it will all be over'. Or your prediction that 'Russia will have full control of Ukraine'? Not to mention your prediction that China would invade Taiwan (is there an infinite timespan for these predictions?)

Yes you’re right, I didn’t think Europe and the USA would engage in a proxy war. Apart from the tens of billions that the Biden admin are pumping into this “exercise”. But I forget, this has “nothing to do with” the Biden mafia, despite all the millions his family have been syphoning out of Ukraine for YEARS.

Genuine question; are you suggesting the Biden administration have NOTHING to do with the situation in Ukraine?

China is interesting because their unique mix of capitalism and communism has developed such deep corruption that their military, despite being huge, is relatively weak. The belt and road initiative is failing and China is going bust.

So that’s a weak China, a weak Russia and a weak USA. I honestly have no idea how that pans out. My assumption is an exponential transfer of wealth to the super rich as the world tumbles into a deep economic depression. Followed by a good old fashioned war. When you have nothing to lose, you might as well risk everything.

[irie]

Putin has used lots of dubious history to justify what he's doing, in his eyes every country that was in the USSR belongs to Russia.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Yes he has made it his mission to restore the former Soviet Bloc. We have known that for some time and our politicians too.

Either our political leaders have made a huge mistake or they took a calculated risk, knowing the effect that might have on Europe, The West and without being over dramatic, the world economy. They made a mistake that we all get to pay for. None of those responsible will have to endure the hardship we suffer due to their mistake.

It was Germany which made a huge mistake in not taking sides against the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 and furthermore continuing with Nordstream 2. Germany was repeatedly warned about the geostrategic and economic risks of becoming dependent on Russian energy but continued all the same.

You are right that those responsible will not have to endure the hardship that will have to be suffered due to their mistake.

The alternative is capitulation to Putin's ambitions which he wrote about in 12.07.2021 in "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“.

Not an option.

[slowsider]

This should have Irie frothing to the point of oblivion

"Germany’s domestic intelligence agency is investigating allegations that two senior civil servants working in the economy ministry could have been spying for Russia"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... for-russia

[DEADPOOL]

It was Germany which made a huge mistake in not taking sides against the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 and furthermore continuing with Nordstream 2. Germany was repeatedly warned about the geostrategic and economic risks of becoming dependent on Russian energy but continued all the same.

You are right that those responsible will not have to endure the hardship that will have to be suffered due to their mistake.

The alternative is capitulation to Putin's ambitions which he wrote about in 12.07.2021 in "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“.

Not an option.

Agreed. All I am saying is there really was every opportunity for a political solution. Isn't that why we have politicians in the first place?

The West did virtually nothing after Russia invaded the Crimea. And yes, if it wan't obvious what Putins ambitions were, he has written a book about it!

[irie]

It was Germany which made a huge mistake in not taking sides against the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 and furthermore continuing with Nordstream 2. Germany was repeatedly warned about the geostrategic and economic risks of becoming dependent on Russian energy but continued all the same.

You are right that those responsible will not have to endure the hardship that will have to be suffered due to their mistake.

The alternative is capitulation to Putin's ambitions which he wrote about in 12.07.2021 in "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“.

Not an option.

Agreed. All I am saying is there really was every opportunity for a political solution. Isn't that why we have politicians in the first place?

The West did virtually nothing after Russia invaded the Crimea. And yes, if it wan't obvious what Putins ambitions were, he has written a book about it!

Germany is not "The West".

By promoting the creation of the Nordstream 2 pipeline Germany implicitly legitimised the Russian annexation of Crimea, which in turn left to the current Russian invasion of Ukraine.

"Wandel durch Handel" was always nothing other than a term for Germany's expedient short sighted greed.

[DEADPOOL]

I am suggesting "The West" (which includes Germany of course) did little to object to Russia invading the Crimea.

As if it never happened. If that wasn't a green light for Putin to carry on with his stated plan then I don't know what is.

[Hoonercat]

Thanks for asking. No I think NATO should have taken Putin seriously when he strongly objected to having a potential NATO member on a highly contentious border.

I am suggesting "The West" (which includes Germany of course) did little to object to Russia invading the Crimea.

As if it never happened. If that wasn't a green light for Putin to carry on with his stated plan then I don't know what is.

Like Yambol, I'm struggling to understand your stance here. Maybe I'm mistaken, but the first post seems to suggest appeasement on NATO's part while the second suggests a more forceful response. Do you think the two situations deserved different responses? I agree with the second, but not sure what you expected from NATO in your first comment?

[DEADPOOL]

Thanks for asking. No I think NATO should have taken Putin seriously when he strongly objected to having a potential NATO member on a highly contentious border.

I am suggesting "The West" (which includes Germany of course) did little to object to Russia invading the Crimea.

As if it never happened. If that wasn't a green light for Putin to carry on with his stated plan then I don't know what is.

Like Yambol, I'm struggling to understand your stance here. Maybe I'm mistaken, but the first post seems to suggest appeasement on NATO's part while the second suggests a more forceful response. Do you think the two situations deserved different responses? I agree with the second, but not sure what you expected from NATO in your first comment?

I don’t know either, I am not a politician. By “appeasement” you suggest I expected NATO to capitulate? No. I expected our politicians to come up with something that would not involve plunging Europe into war. Ask yourself what it is they actually did to mitigate the overt threat from a lunatic like Putin.

Also, what is worse than the situation right now? A prolonged proxy war with taxpayers money being pumped into arms supporting a copycat Russian style mafia oligarchy while at the same time plunging half the population into fuel poverty. Throw in the acceleration of the transfer of wealth into the hands of the super rich and you have a perfect storm.

The current situation could arguably be improved if the Earth was suddenly threatened by a giant asteroid strike. I’m not even kidding.