Riding beyond your limits/trusting your mates

[The Spin Doctor]

I've no preconceptions at all... I simply read what the reporter provided. Unless you get hold of the entire court transcript, that's all there is to go on.

If there was any evidence for your speculation, the van driver would have been charged.

[wull]

I've no preconceptions at all... I simply read what the reporter provided. Unless you get hold of the entire court transcript, that's all there is to go on.

If there was any evidence for your speculation, the van driver would have been charged.

Oh dear. That’s my point, what do they have to go on? Everything they go on and have mentioned which they can easily prove is before the incident. The incident itself the only evidence that they have is what the van driver has said.

Mental. Absolutely fucking mental.

[Jody]

There is no hard evidence that’s been given to suggest he was brake checked other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say, he’s not going to own up to narrowing the gap through being pissed off.

Your counter argument of “where is the evidence that he didn’t brake check the van” is stupid.


Nobody is denying that they were riding like Fannie’s but the fact of the matter is what actually happened when the lead rider overtook the van and what proof is there to suggest what happened.

The issue here is having a preconception of what happened and looking for evidence to prove this, sometimes you find or look into something and have it say what you want it to say.

Take the end result out of the equation, look at the evidence and what does it tell you, then get your end result.

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me causing me to swerve to oncoming traffic” why didn’t he swerve to the nearside where there wouldn’t have been traffic, is that not the logical and instinctive thing to do, take yourself away from danger. Like I said I’m calling bullshit, I see it all the time drivers reducing gaps through being fucked off with the lead biker passing. Plus he’s a van driver probably an arsehole white van man who’s raging that he can’t make up time to deliver a shitty wee parcel to some cunt.

You are stereo typing the van driver with less facts than the stereo typing of the riders !

[wull]

There is no hard evidence that’s been given to suggest he was brake checked other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say, he’s not going to own up to narrowing the gap through being pissed off.

Your counter argument of “where is the evidence that he didn’t brake check the van” is stupid.


Nobody is denying that they were riding like Fannie’s but the fact of the matter is what actually happened when the lead rider overtook the van and what proof is there to suggest what happened.

The issue here is having a preconception of what happened and looking for evidence to prove this, sometimes you find or look into something and have it say what you want it to say.

Take the end result out of the equation, look at the evidence and what does it tell you, then get your end result.

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me causing me to swerve to oncoming traffic” why didn’t he swerve to the nearside where there wouldn’t have been traffic, is that not the logical and instinctive thing to do, take yourself away from danger. Like I said I’m calling bullshit, I see it all the time drivers reducing gaps through being fucked off with the lead biker passing. Plus he’s a van driver probably an arsehole white van man who’s raging that he can’t make up time to deliver a shitty wee parcel to some cunt.

You are stereo typing the van driver with less facts than the stereo typing of the riders !

Not at all I’m merely saying that where’s the proof of the brake check? I’m keeping an open mind. I’m saying there are potentially two outcomes here and where is the evidence for either? The statement does not mention anything other than what the van driver says with regards to a brake check.

[Noggin]

There is no hard evidence that’s been given to suggest he was brake checked other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say, he’s not going to own up to narrowing the gap through being pissed off.

Your counter argument of “where is the evidence that he didn’t brake check the van” is stupid.


Nobody is denying that they were riding like Fannie’s but the fact of the matter is what actually happened when the lead rider overtook the van and what proof is there to suggest what happened.

The issue here is having a preconception of what happened and looking for evidence to prove this, sometimes you find or look into something and have it say what you want it to say.

Take the end result out of the equation, look at the evidence and what does it tell you, then get your end result.

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me causing me to swerve to oncoming traffic” why didn’t he swerve to the nearside where there wouldn’t have been traffic, is that not the logical and instinctive thing to do, take yourself away from danger. Like I said I’m calling bullshit, I see it all the time drivers reducing gaps through being fucked off with the lead biker passing. Plus he’s a van driver probably an arsehole white van man who’s raging that he can’t make up time to deliver a shitty wee parcel to some cunt.

You are stereo typing the van driver with less facts than the stereo typing of the riders !

Not at all I’m merely saying that where’s the proof of the brake check? I’m keeping an open mind. I’m saying there are potentially two outcomes here and where is the evidence for either? The statement does not mention anything other than what the van driver says with regards to a brake check.

I would have expected the (apparently crap) court report to at least say that the biker disagreed if that didn't happen?

[mangocrazy]

Without going through the court transcript, and without seeing whatever dashcam/CCTV footage is available, everything here is just supposition.

[slowsider]

Some of it is suppositories.

[wull]

Without going through the court transcript, and without seeing whatever dashcam/CCTV footage is available, everything here is just supposition.

Yep 100%

[Horse]

other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say,

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me

Wasn't there an HGV driver there too? Presumably if he could see the first bike, he could either have seen the brake light or the way the bike moved (if it did happen, across in front of the van then slowing)?

And the direction the van driver swerved may have been influenced by how far across the lane the first bike had moved, so going towards the bigger gap.

[JackyJoll]

Some of it is suppositories.

Now you’re just taking the pessary

[wull]

other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say,

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me

Wasn't there an HGV driver there too? Presumably if he could see the first bike, he could either have seen the brake light or the way the bike moved (if it did happen, across in front of the van then slowing)?

And the direction the van driver swerved may have been influenced by how far across the lane the first bike had moved, so going towards the bigger gap.

From what I can gather the HGV was on the other side of the road heading in their direction, sounds as if the rider who died was essentially between them when he struck the van that had moved across to the right.

Not sure how the HGV driver could contribute to whether or not the lead rider brake checked the van, I mean it would have happened in so quickly and with all the usual noises I can’t imagine he’d be able to accurately tell what the lead biker was doing.

It states that the van moved towards the HGV, not something I’d do if I was trying to avoid something.

[Mussels]

I read it as the van moved towards the HGV to avoid the other motorbike, that's why I thought it sounded like there was a brake test.

[Horse]

Wasn't there an HGV driver there too? Presumably if he could see the first bike, he could either have seen the brake light or the way the bike moved (if it did happen, across in front of the van then slowing)?

From what I can gather the HGV was on the other side of the road heading in their direction, sounds as if the rider who died was essentially between them when he struck the van that had moved across to the right.

Blimey, you bang on about 'facts'?

Kennedy led his friend between a Transit van and an HGV.

If that's true, then the HGV is unlikely to have been on the opposite carriageway.

The report also states there were roadworks. In which case, even in a contraflow, there would be rigid (steel or concrete) barriers between opposing traffic lanes.

And the direction the van driver swerved may have been influenced by how far across the lane the first bike had moved, so going towards the bigger gap.

It states that the van moved towards the HGV, not something I’d do if I was trying to avoid something.

You have the luxury of time to think about it. The van driver didn't.

[wull]

Just realised it was on a motorway

That changes things then with regards to the lorry.

Lock him away for life then because bikers that fuck about on motorways are absolute useless boring cunts, find nice twisty roads ffs twats!

[Jody]

There is no hard evidence that’s been given to suggest he was brake checked other than his own(van driver) words which of course he would say, he’s not going to own up to narrowing the gap through being pissed off.

Your counter argument of “where is the evidence that he didn’t brake check the van” is stupid.


Nobody is denying that they were riding like Fannie’s but the fact of the matter is what actually happened when the lead rider overtook the van and what proof is there to suggest what happened.

The issue here is having a preconception of what happened and looking for evidence to prove this, sometimes you find or look into something and have it say what you want it to say.

Take the end result out of the equation, look at the evidence and what does it tell you, then get your end result.

What do they have, a van driver that says “he brake checked me causing me to swerve to oncoming traffic” why didn’t he swerve to the nearside where there wouldn’t have been traffic, is that not the logical and instinctive thing to do, take yourself away from danger. Like I said I’m calling bullshit, I see it all the time drivers reducing gaps through being fucked off with the lead biker passing. Plus he’s a van driver probably an arsehole white van man who’s raging that he can’t make up time to deliver a shitty wee parcel to some cunt.

You are stereo typing the van driver with less facts than the stereo typing of the riders !

Not at all I’m merely saying that where’s the proof of the brake check? I’m keeping an open mind. I’m saying there are potentially two outcomes here and where is the evidence for either? The statement does not mention anything other than what the van driver says with regards to a brake check.

You're not 'merely saying' anything. I quoted you to make it clear. You have decided the van driver is "probably an arsehole" without a single shred of evidence.

[wull]

You are stereo typing the van driver with less facts than the stereo typing of the riders !

Not at all I’m merely saying that where’s the proof of the brake check? I’m keeping an open mind. I’m saying there are potentially two outcomes here and where is the evidence for either? The statement does not mention anything other than what the van driver says with regards to a brake check.

You're not 'merely saying' anything. I quoted you to make it clear. You have decided the van driver is "probably an arsehole" without a single shred of evidence.

It was a tongue in cheek comment ffs, so yes I was merely saying, you don’t decide what I was meaning by the comment.

[JackyJoll]

Will someone please do a diagram in MS Paint?

[Dickyboy]

Point 1 - not one news report that I have know details from first hand has been factually correct.
Point 2 - the major piece of evidence used in a court case regarding a near death accident I witnessed (police preserved the scene) was a print off from google earth of the junction concerned.
So raking over these sorts of cases based on news reports & police evidence is just pissing in the wind.

[Taipan]

It looks like we can conclude that both bikers and van drivers are twats!

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

It looks like we can conclude that both bikers and van drivers are twats!

I think it's best to assume everyone is a twat