What would be your advice?

[A_morti]

Take a couple of basics out the equation first.

When I very first got back on a bike after a couple of years out following moving to Malta, it was my "new old stock" cb300r which had sat in the warehouse for nearly 3 years. It felt awful, and I couldn't get the bastard thing to go round a corner for the life of me. I was convinced it was me, and set about trying to get back in practice.

Turned out they hadn't pumped up the tyres since 2018, which let them around 10psi low.

Assuming that's not the issue, the above advice is already better than I could give. I don't like tipping my bike over far anymore, but in Malta the top speed limit is 80km/h anyway, everywhere is dusty and they use that hot country shiny tarmac, so I can't get too worried about it.

[Horse]

Most of the chaps I see on the road and who seem to have little clue are middle aged men,who have probably taken a notion for bikes after a lifetime driving cars.

Roughly why we started training at the dealership. Half of their August 1st new bike registrations were customers who had been strolling into the car dealership next door and thought "I'll buy one of those" - but didn't have bike licences.

do three things.
1. Ride at their own pace at all times
2. get some training.
3. trackday is also a great way to learn what a bike can do in relative safety.

And in exactly that order.
1. If riding in groups, stick the less confident one at the front, with the [actual] 'best' rider at the back. Also, keep in mind that keeping the group together isn't important.
2. As BY says, work up from the basics
3. 'Own pace' = self restraint. Put that together with the skills.

[Hoonercat]

Ride in 2 groups, fast and intermediate (call it slow and no one will want to ride in it ). Half the problem with riders of mixed ability is the pressure slower riders feel to keep up, put them in a group with similar abilities and they'll be less prone to make mistakes and might even learn to improve technique if they're going at a more comfortable pace. Make sure everyone knows the route so no pressure to keep up for fear of getting lost, shouldn't be a problem with today's technology.

[The Spin Doctor]

I'll get my cost as obviously it's impossible to ride a motorcycle without formal training, I must be crap at riding and better give up.

NOT what anyone said.

What I said was that it becomes learning by trial and error. If we survive the experience, people often become very proficient riders indeed. I'd say that most of the riders who self-taught and have a couple of decades of time on two wheels are very good indeed, and much better than the 'past the test, started with the IAM next week, and passed the IAM test six months later' brigade who usually tell everyone who cares to listen just how good they are.

The problem is that learning by experience cuts two ways. When we get it wrong, consequences can be serious. I was lucky to survive a couple of my (entirely avoidable if I'd known better) crashes.

Training short-circuits that experience. I'd have fewer scars now if someone had given me a few decent lessons when I was learning and crashing.

[The Spin Doctor]

Novice trackday would help.

Not really. It would teach speed without learning how you're getting round a bend. You just go round in circles doing the same few bends over and over and over. Eventually, you'll figure out a route round without every understand how you're making that decision.

Some of the worst riders I've seen on the road - and I'm talking about setting up the bike to get through a corner - have had plenty of trackday experience.

If you f-ck up on the road, get some training in riding on the road.

[The Spin Doctor]

1. If riding in groups, stick the less confident one at the front, with the [actual] 'best' rider at the back. Also, keep in mind that keeping the group together isn't important.

That's the one thing I don't agree with.

It's easy for the leader to watch the 'slow' rider who is desperately trying to keep up, and start winding on the pace bit by bit...

...until that rider comes a cropper.

The slow rider is also very aware all the fast riders are behind, watching.

Far better IMO to let the slowest rider ride at the back and let the quicker riders disappear ahead, with a patient sweeper trailing at a distance. It takes away the pressure of trying to keep the pace high.

[The Spin Doctor]

Ride in 2 groups, fast and intermediate (call it slow and no one will want to ride in it ). Half the problem with riders of mixed ability is the pressure slower riders feel to keep up, put them in a group with similar abilities and they'll be less prone to make mistakes and might even learn to improve technique if they're going at a more comfortable pace. Make sure everyone knows the route so no pressure to keep up for fear of getting lost, shouldn't be a problem with today's technology.

Fine if everyone can get round bends in the first place - and I've done exactly that myself on an extremely spirited ride up Mt Ventoux, and it worked well. The quicker riders got the fun ride they wanted, the slower riders looked at the scenery. But when making the errors this bunch appear to be making, even the slower group won't be the full answer. It's not just a case of winding neck in.

[wull]

I’ve just been for a run up to some of my favourite roads and there is so much traffic now you can barely string two corners together anyway without other traffic dictating how you’re going to have to take said corners anyway.

Unless you’re out early enough or later on in the evening the traffic will spoil pretty much all the fun. If it’s more a case of enjoying the scenery and being out then fair enough but for the actual enjoyment of some good twisty routes then you can kiss that goodbye.

[Skub]

I’ve just been for a run up to some of my favourite roads and there is so much traffic now you can barely string two corners together anyway without other traffic dictating how you’re going to have to take said corners anyway.

Unless you’re out early enough or later on in the evening the traffic will spoil pretty much all the fun. If it’s more a case of enjoying the scenery and being out then fair enough but for the actual enjoyment of some good twisty routes then you can kiss that goodbye.

That's number one reason I ride early,it's the only time to have the roads to yourself.

[wull]

I thought I was being early enough but stopped off and chatted shite to a few randoms for half an hour, I reckon that was my window gone.

[Horse]

1. If riding in groups, stick the less confident one at the front, with the [actual] 'best' rider at the back. Also, keep in mind that keeping the group together isn't important.

That's the one thing I don't agree with.

It's easy for the leader to watch the 'slow' rider who is desperately trying to keep up, and start winding on the pace bit by bit...

...until that rider comes a cropper.

The slow rider is also very aware all the fast riders are behind, watching.

Far better IMO to let the slowest rider ride at the back and let the quicker riders disappear ahead, with a patient sweeper trailing at a distance. It takes away the pressure of trying to keep the pace high.

At which point it's two group rides.

[The Spin Doctor]

At which point it's two group rides.

Doesn't matter. If you're using a marking system and you trust the riders to mark, then it'll stay together.

[Trinity765]

How to enjoy a group ride

1. It’s a race. Don’t trust anyone who tells you that it’s not. Mark as many corners as possible. Whoever marks the most corners wins
2. If you are inexperienced or slower than you want to be, don’t ride your own ride, ride someone else’s. Someone who is better than you. Stick with them into corners, follow their line and trust them. Follow them into every overtake because if they get away you will never catch them again.
3. Work out who your major competitors are (clue – they are probably your mates). Ask them how many corners they’ve marked, giggle over near misses and buddy up while corner marking – share water and fags.
4. Stalk anyone who rides a Panigale or Hayabusa, has new gear, white boots or a thigh bag. Sit in their mirrors until you know that they know you are there – this could be a while. Wait until they are riding at the top of their comfort zone and then overtake them in a right-hand bend.
5. Smoke cigarettes or rollies (never vape) – have them to hand for corner marking. If you can, smoke while riding – open face helmets are handy for this but remember – no one has ever looked cool in an open face helmet.
6. Corner marking – great opportunity for an extra fag break, piss and a gossip with your mate. If someone misses a corner because you’re too busy doing the above and have forgotten to direct them, follow the Shep rule (see 7).
7. Be like Shep. If someone misses a corner marker hunt them down, round them up and bring them back – this will give you hero status. Speed limits do not apply when being a Shep. If you are stopped by the police, be nice and calm and explain the situation – they are likely to be lenient on you. As soon they let you go – resume the hunt.
8. Never offer to be tail-gunner unless you have a hangover. You will not get an opportunity for an extra fag break as you will not be marking corners. Don’t do up your orange vest – you’ll look much cooler with it flapping around. You may have heard the saying “You have to be faster at the back”? It’s bollocks. You can never go faster than the slowest rider and you are likely to get bored. If you anticipate being a tail-gunner – bring some tunes to play – relax and use the opportunity to chill out and write your Christmas card list.
9. Wheelies – Get as many wheelies in as possible so long as a member of the team, someone with a camera or the police doesn’t see. You lose if this happens. Also, if you crash – no one cares.
10. Get home. None of this is worth it if you don’t get to go home at the end of the day, chill out with a beer and bask in your smugness.

[Count Steer]

6a. Corner marking. Never miss an opportunity to direct the bloke nobody likes down the gravel track to the sewage works through the 1ft deep ford with the incredibly slippy cobbles.

11. If leading and someone passes you, turn left immediately.

[KungFooBob]

I'm late to this thread, has anyone suggested "man up princess" as advice yet?

[Horse]

At which point it's two group rides.

Doesn't matter. If you're using a marking system and you trust* the riders to mark, then it'll stay together.

Which (how to run group rides so that everyone gets there) is another thread. You ought to run an online seminar about it Perhaps even use the script / content to create an e-book?

* top tip: ensure riders taking part have some basic idea of where they're going (eg which m-way junction to exit at) so you don't have some fuggwit deciding to mark a slip road, on the hard shoulder ...

[Count Steer]

I'm late to this thread, has anyone suggested "man up princess" as advice yet?

Surprisingly, no. No-one has referred to the RTTL handbook either which clearly states 'any rider having issues with cornering must refer to one or more of the following:

a) tyre profile's wrong for that type of corner
b) dealer has messed up the suspension settings/haven't got the new Ohlins dialled in yet
c) need to change the oil weight in the forks/drop them an inch
d) the throttle's 'sticky'
e) I thought there was oil on the bend so I bailed
f) brake fade/can't get used to these new pads'

[Bigjawa]

dealer has messed up the suspension settings/haven't got the new Ohlins dialled in yet

You jest, but I've seen people fuck about with suspension with absolutely no clue what they're doing, then complain that the bike is going to kill them. I rode a Tuono that had everything turned up full and the owner wondered why it nearly kicked him out of the seat.

You can have a million adjustments but 999,999 of them can be wrong. Thank fuck my K12 does it all for you, just select the preload with the wee helmet symbols then it's either Comfort, Norm or Sport. Easy Peasy.

[slowsider]

I'm late to this thread, has anyone suggested "man up princess" as advice yet?

No. Not even 'gan it up on t'back wheel'.

[KungFooBob]

Or even having them on the brakes?