By-elections

[Lutin]

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to by how much the tories will lose today's two by-elections?

[Pirahna]

Not by as much as you think. There's plenty of people out there convinced Brexit is a great idea, Boris has done a fantastic job with covid, is doing a great job with the economy, so what if he had a few parties in lockdown, I'd do the same in that situation, etc, etc.

[Count Steer]

Lose one by a margin that they'll claim is 'not too bad' and 'what you'd expect in a by-election at this point in the electoral cycle'. Win the other by the skin of their teeth on a low turnout and claim 'it's a triumph for a by-election at this point in the electoral cycle'.

[mangocrazy]

Whatever the result Boris will claim it as a positive and the BBC, Sky and the papers will go along with it.

[gremlin]

By-elections tend to be about protest voters being galvanised into action. The truth of it is that 90% of the voters are dyed-in-the-wool supports of their favoured party and will never vote for 'the other lot', so cast their vote to some obscure candidate. It's what the Lib Dems were invented for.

Take my mum. Reads the DM, rails against illegal immigrants and work-shy dole scroungers and lazy striking binmen/posties/train drivers/etc. but puts a Vote Labour sticker in her window when elections come around as she's 'working class and proud'.

[Mussels]

A summer of strikes looming and labour MPs stood on the picket lines, it's as if they are scared of winning too many seats or very complacent.

[DefTrap]

This government is as greasy as an oiled pig. Black is White. Wrong is Right.

At this point Boris would have to be caught throwing it up a minor for it to spur the party faithful into think maybe, just maybe, he's not the right guy for the job.

[Horse]

A summer of strikes looming and labour MPs stood on the picket lines, it's as if they are scared of winning too many seats or very complacent.

Imminent recession?
Rampant inflation.
Brexit done - but NI protocol to sort.
etc.

Would you want to be in the government?

Make your name as a good 'local', MP for constituency work, but keeping out of 'power' seems sensible

[Lutin]

A stunning victory for the tories then.

[DefTrap]

More water off a ducks back.

Is it a protest about this shambolic government?
Is it a protest about Boris? (What's worse than shambolic by the way?)

Look at Abbot's shoes though! And Sir Keir ate a curry!

[Mr Moofo]

The sad fact is now that even with the electorate deciding that Boris is a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader, the Cons have nothing else.
The really sad issue is that Boris will survive , because Labour are even worse

[mangocrazy]

The sad fact is now that even with the electorate deciding that Boris is a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader, the Cons have nothing else.
The really sad issue is that Boris will survive , because Labour are even worse

Define 'worse'. Starmer is pretty dull, but to infer that he is worse than Johnson is plainly ridiculous. He hasn't based his entire life and career on lying, as Boris has. Prior to becoming an MP he was the director of Public Prosecutions. You don't get to rise that far up the legal profession by being a serial liar.

All your statement really means is that 'despite Boris being a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader I'm still voting Tory'.

[Count Steer]

The sad fact is now that even with the electorate deciding that Boris is a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader, the Cons have nothing else.

359? MPs and not one of them capable of putting a cabinet with a mixture of competence, honesty and decency together? That's a vote winner.

[Mussels]

The sad fact is now that even with the electorate deciding that Boris is a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader, the Cons have nothing else.
The really sad issue is that Boris will survive , because Labour are even worse

Define 'worse'. Starmer is pretty dull, but to infer that he is worse than Johnson is plainly ridiculous. He hasn't based his entire life and career on lying, as Boris has. Prior to becoming an MP he was the director of Public Prosecutions. You don't get to rise that far up the legal profession by being a serial liar.

All your statement really means is that 'despite Boris being a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader I'm still voting Tory'.

I don't think Starmer is worse, I quite like him. I think labour is worse and Starmer is just a moderate puppet for show with little control.

[DefTrap]

The really sad issue is that Boris will survive , because Labour are even worse

Well the papers say so. But the age-old threat of "Labour will tax you to death" seems rather hollow now ...

The hilarious bit is we -knew- Boris was terrible - a horror-show of political, personal and career gaffes, and a congenital liar - yet we still elected him and we still, quite likely the majority of the electorate and his own MPs, want to keep him and are fine with his bullshit. We only have ourselves to blame.

But yeah obviously that guy Starmer who's so vanilla that eating a curry is news, is worse. Oh yes - champagne socialist! So he's a hypocrite! And Abbotts shoes. And probably they're all antisemitic obviously.

However I totally agree that Labour shot themselves in the foot allowing the pathetic 'party faithful' middle class militants appear to take over. That's going to take time to get over.

[mangocrazy]

The sad fact is now that even with the electorate deciding that Boris is a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader, the Cons have nothing else.
The really sad issue is that Boris will survive , because Labour are even worse

Define 'worse'. Starmer is pretty dull, but to infer that he is worse than Johnson is plainly ridiculous. He hasn't based his entire life and career on lying, as Boris has. Prior to becoming an MP he was the director of Public Prosecutions. You don't get to rise that far up the legal profession by being a serial liar.

All your statement really means is that 'despite Boris being a lying and untrustworthy PM, as well as a hopeless leader I'm still voting Tory'.

I don't think Starmer is worse, I quite like him. I think labour is worse and Starmer is just a moderate puppet for show with little control.

You also haven't defined 'worse'. And Starmer is no puppet - he's been instigating a purge of what the tabloids call the hard left and pissing off a lot of Labour activists. The Corbynistas are now an endangered species within Labour, and the man himself has been effectively banished. That's not the actions of a puppet.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Labour won't win a General Election, that's how they're worse, they're less trust worthy than the Conservatives, you've no idea what you're voting for with Labour.

[Mussels]

Nobody has defined worse so far, it means different things to different people.
You think Starmer is getting rid of socialists too quickly, I think they still have too much influence for labour to be credible. The unions have too much power and their only interests are increasing their subs and power.

[Mussels]

I'm not against unions, I'm against them making noise for the sake of it. BA staff have a good reason for going on strike, the railway staff can get stuffed.

[DefTrap]

Labour won't win a General Election, that's how they're worse, they're less trust worthy than the Conservatives, you've no idea what you're voting for with Labour.

Nobody has defined worse so far, it means different things to different people.
You think Starmer is getting rid of socialists too quickly, I think they still have too much influence for labour to be credible. The unions have too much power and their only interests are increasing their subs and power.

This is just the old project fear angle, so hugely derided. You don't -know- that, you're just guessing.

The icing on the cake is we know that the Tories are a shambles. Looking just past Boris, we know that their front bench is a horror show - Dorries, Patel, Rees-Mogg, Gove, Shapps - we get to see their stupid, misguided and downright inhumane actual policies every day. The front bench is SO bad that Shifty Sunak is a genuine contender for party leadership, despite his blatant corruption and outside interests. Maybe because any of the genuinely decent and competent ones won't put up with Boris's nonsense.

But yeah the terrible Tory government is probably Labour and Liberal fault for not upping their game and taking advantage of this massive black hole of ability