Energica Experia

[slowsider]

As has been said by others, weight is the real killer with electric bikes. My old VFR is right at the top end of bike weight that I want to be wheeling about the place, and that's about 220kg wet weight. An additional 40kg for the Energica puts it right out of consideration for me, especially as the (quoted) performance is inferior to my 35 year old Viffer. There would have to be a seriously major breakthrough in battery energy density before I'd even start to look at a leccy bike.

Or fuel prices rise sufficiently...

[mangocrazy]

As has been said by others, weight is the real killer with electric bikes. My old VFR is right at the top end of bike weight that I want to be wheeling about the place, and that's about 220kg wet weight. An additional 40kg for the Energica puts it right out of consideration for me, especially as the (quoted) performance is inferior to my 35 year old Viffer. There would have to be a seriously major breakthrough in battery energy density before I'd even start to look at a leccy bike.

Or fuel prices rise sufficiently...

Hmmm. You have seen the recent hike in electricity prices I presume? Anyone thinking that EVs will usher in a new era of inexpensive motoring is deluding themselves, I think.

[slowsider]

As has been said by others, weight is the real killer with electric bikes. My old VFR is right at the top end of bike weight that I want to be wheeling about the place, and that's about 220kg wet weight. An additional 40kg for the Energica puts it right out of consideration for me, especially as the (quoted) performance is inferior to my 35 year old Viffer. There would have to be a seriously major breakthrough in battery energy density before I'd even start to look at a leccy bike.

Or fuel prices rise sufficiently...

Hmmm. You have seen the recent hike in electricity prices I presume? Anyone thinking that EVs will usher in a new era of inexpensive motoring is deluding themselves, I think.

You can offset with solar in part
https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-qu ... ectric-car

or in full
https://lightyear.one/

[Horse]

Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.

Really? I think that crossover point has been passed. I doubt whether any major manufacturer will again launch a 'converted' ICE car.

The floor pan is the biggest and most expensive pressing. The upper bits are just dressing the underpinnings in a frock.

According to a colleague, about 10 years ago, adding the weight of batteries through the vehicle had substantial effects on crash performance. New EVs will be designed accordingly.

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/motor/ ... -in-the-uk

1) Tesla Model 3 - 34,783 registrations
2) Kia e-Niro - 12,271 registrations
3) Volkswagen ID.3 - 11,032 registrations
4) Nissan Leaf - 9,052 registrations
5) Audi E-tron - 7,396 registrations
6) Hyundai Kona Electric - 7,199 registrations
7) MINI Electric - 6,615 registrations
8) Renault Zoe - 5,778 registrations
9) Vauxhall Corsa-e - 5,605 registrations
10) MG ZS EV - 5,380 registrations

[Mr. Dazzle]

I was gonna say...off the top of my head, 'bespoke' electric cars include:

Any and every Tesla.
Jaguar iPace.
All of the VW "ID" range.
Porsche Taycan / Audi E-tron GT.
BMW i3.
Hyanudai Ioniq 5 / Kia EV
Mustang Mach E.
Nissan Leaf.

Pretty sure most of the top 5 in Horses lists are bespoke EV platforms. Audi E tron includes a number of models though, some of which are and some aren't. The Niro isn't AFAIK.

I doubt anyone is going to launch a new "converted' car any more, cept for stuff which is just about to come out in the next year or so. You ain't seen nothing yet as far as custom EV platforms go.

BTW...so far as safety goes, EVs tend to get really good scores. ISTR the Tesla Model X achieved the highest score ever in a number of tests? Its partly because the skateboard architecture is naturally very strong, party because it allows big crumple zones, partly cause all the mass is spread out so you don't have big individual heavy lumps to hang on to and partly cause its so damned heavy it just batters everything else out of the way

[mangocrazy]

Or fuel prices rise sufficiently...

Hmmm. You have seen the recent hike in electricity prices I presume? Anyone thinking that EVs will usher in a new era of inexpensive motoring is deluding themselves, I think.

You can offset with solar in part
https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-qu ... ectric-car

or in full
https://lightyear.one/

Charging EVs with' free' solar energy is a great idea, I agree. Except that solar isn't free. You have the up-front costs of a solar installation, which even at the low end will cost at least £10k. Then you need to buy your EV, and even a secondhand one will run out at over £10k. Then you need off-street parking and the additional cost of a charging point installation.

So basically running an EV off solar is a game that only the relatively affluent can play; the not-so-well-off are excluded. At least the poor folk can just about afford a cheap gas-guzzling shitter to take them to their call centre zero hours minimum wage contract place of work.

For me, an EV in the UK makes no financial sense. I don't have off street parking and the roof of my house is poorly aligned; the roof ridge runs pretty much North-South.

Ironically, our fixer-upper gaff in the S of F ticks all the boxes - solar panels on the roof and a large garage, with the distribution board right next to where an EV would park (if I had one). All it would need is a charging point plumbing in. It's an option for the future if s/h prices fall to affordable levels, but we could only take advantage of it for 2 or 3 months a year.

So, a nice idea, but for most folk it's not realistically an option.

[Rockburner]

Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.

Really? I think that crossover point has been passed. I doubt whether any major manufacturer will again launch a 'converted' ICE car.

The floor pan is the biggest and most expensive pressing. The upper bits are just dressing the underpinnings in a frock.

According to a colleague, about 10 years ago, adding the weight of batteries through the vehicle had substantial effects on crash performance. New EVs will be designed accordingly.

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/motor/ ... -in-the-uk

1) Tesla Model 3 - 34,783 registrations
2) Kia e-Niro - 12,271 registrations
3) Volkswagen ID.3 - 11,032 registrations
4) Nissan Leaf - 9,052 registrations
5) Audi E-tron - 7,396 registrations
6) Hyundai Kona Electric - 7,199 registrations
7) MINI Electric - 6,615 registrations
8) Renault Zoe - 5,778 registrations
9) Vauxhall Corsa-e - 5,605 registrations
10) MG ZS EV - 5,380 registrations

I believe the new electric trucks from the US (Ford & GM) are both 'modular' - ie they've been designed for both ICE and electric (not hybrid) propulsion. (knowledge from loose skimming of a US car blog platform).

[Horse]

When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.

Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?

Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.

Just realised, did you mean hybrids and plug-in hybrids, rather than EVs?

[The Spin Doctor]

Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?

Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.

Just realised, did you mean hybrids and plug-in hybrids, rather than EVs?

EVs. Like my brother's Fiat 500. Full electric but the ICE platform. Ditto the Skodo e-Up and the VW e-CityGo or whatever its called. Loads of them around.

I appreciate that NEW vehicles are coming out all the time which aren't based on an ICE platform but the first generation certainly were.

[Horse]

Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.

Just realised, did you mean hybrids and plug-in hybrids, rather than EVs?

EVs. Like my brother's Fiat 500. Full electric but the ICE platform. Ditto the Skodo e-Up and the VW e-CityGo or whatever its called. Loads of them around.

I appreciate that NEW vehicles are coming out all the time which aren't based on an ICE platform but the first generation certainly were.

'Were' being the key word. As Dazzle says, review the list I quoted, review those he added (and he missed some), all new models are exactly that, new. And look at the sales figures too. Whether you go by most of the vehicles available or most sold, the numbers based on old ICE designs is rapidly diminishing eg Golf: four years ago you could by petrol, diesel, hybrid and full electric - now it's the ID4 if you want full electric. In fact, VW have a whole range of ID electric models, it's their hybrids that are based on ICE (which makes sense).

[The Spin Doctor]

Yes yes... but as I said "right now"... I'm talking about what's on the road now, and many of the older designs are still on sale.

[Mr. Dazzle]

When did you last see an Electric car that wasn't a Tesla

[demographic]

When did you last see an Electric car that wasn't a Tesla

Dunno about the UK but it seems that Tesla is taking a huge market share from Mercedes in Australia anyway.
Every once in a while it looks like the Aussie trend is reversed but thats when they pre-register a mass of cars to make the figures look better. Fairly predictability followed by a slump as they have to actually sell them.
Plus as you say, most of the electric cars I see on the road up here in sunny Cumbria are Teslas.

[Horse]

Yes yes... but as I said "right now"... I'm talking about what's on the road now, and many of the older designs are still on sale.

A quick look for figures suggests about 400,000 BEVs on UK roads, of which 191,000 were sold just last year and 110,000 in 2021.

For the whole of 2020, the Tesla Model 3 took the UK’s top BEV spot, with the Nissan LEAF coming in second.

The third position was likely a close fight between the Renault ZOE and the incoming Volkswagen ID.3, with the Kia Niro not far behind.

Other popular BEV models in 2020 were (in order); the Jaguar I-Pace, MG ZS, Audi e-tron, and BMW i3, each with at least ~5,000 annual sales.

If we take Dazzle's suggestion that all of the top 5 of the 2021 sales were new-design BEVs, that's 70,000 new vehicles alone.

The massive sales in the last two years have skewed the balance to new-design BEVs.

[Rockburner]

When did you last see an Electric car that wasn't a Tesla

Teslas are the most recognisable ones. I'm sure i see plenty of VW IDs and others, but I'm not really noticing them because I'm not actively trying to recognize every vehicle i see, I'm just trying to judge the risk they post to me.

[KungFooBob]

I see shit loads of full leccy cars, they're easy to spot because of the virtue signalling green patch on the number plate.

[The Spin Doctor]

Sometimes I lose the will...

Yes yes... but as I said "right now"... I'm talking about what's on the road now, and many of the older designs are still on sale.

A quick look for figures suggests about 400,000 BEVs on UK roads... If we take Dazzle's suggestion that all of the top 5 of the 2021 sales were new-design BEVs, that's 70,000 new vehicles alone.

[Horse]

Sometimes I lose the will...

Yes yes... but as I said "right now"... I'm talking about what's on the road now, and many of the older designs are still on sale.

A quick look for figures suggests about 400,000 BEVs on UK roads... If we take Dazzle's suggestion that all of the top 5 of the 2021 sales were new-design BEVs, that's 70,000 new vehicles alone.

It will have rolled under the table. That's where mine is, anyway.

400,000 on the road, 300,000 sold in the last two years, majority of those designed from scratch as BEVs.

[slowsider]

Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?

Not so much the shape as the sheer lack of volume.

Same difference.

Unless a totally different form is used (eg FF), you're constrained by the distance between the wheels, gap between the rider's knees and height of the seat. That defines the maximum available space.

Bike-ish ?

https://electrek.co/2022/05/30/aptera-r ... car-range/

[Horse]

Is that Darth Vader's head at the front?