Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:12 pm
From that video walking might be safer. Not so much a terrorist attack but an own-goal by the police security team.
Being on foot wasn't safer for the copper who died in one of those attacks at that gateway.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:12 pm
From that video walking might be safer. Not so much a terrorist attack but an own-goal by the police security team.
Being on foot wasn't safer for the copper who died in one of those attacks at that gateway.
Wasnt he unarmed?
You could let Boris walk if you gave him a handgun - what's the worst he could do?
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:38 pm
My point is that any credible plan to 'save the planet', like any other complex long-term plan, should be aiming at the big targets first. Taking aim at the multiple small targets will waste a lot of effort for not much gain.
There's a couple of things wrong with this argument IMO.
First off they are attacking the big things too. Or have you missed the whole wind turbine thing etc? I really don't see how someone who even vaguely watches the news could think the big things are being ignored.
Second, little things quickly add up.
And thirdly, and probably most significant here, your own argument is an argument China could quite easily use against you. Why should China or the US bother trying to do anything if you're not going to?
So we all agree, the Experia is nice bike, but could do with a little more range, unless the charging infrastructure is improved or peoples attitude to travelling changes.
I like it, but I've liked Energicas for ages, love the Evo.
Bikes are bottom of the pile for electrification IMO, there's just not the budget to attack them properly. When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Horses for courses. The range thing wouldn't impact me at all. However I'm still not lashing out full whack money on what still feels like early adopter technology and on brands that could easily go sideways.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
I like it, but I've liked Energicas for ages, love the Evo.
Bikes are bottom of the pile for electrification IMO, there's just not the budget to attack them properly. When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Isn't it that the batteries aren't ready yet? You need a certain weight of batteries to give a decent range. You can 'hide' the weight in a car but if 250 miles worth of batteries weighs twice as much (say) as a bike ICE it's pretty much a non-starter. So we're stuck with 'little' stuff that's good for 50-60 miles or 'big' bikes that don't go far enough for their size. Until they lighten the battery pack anything with a decent range will be way too heavy for a two wheeler. The Experia is pretty much a bike version of a Chelsea tractor for 'extreme commuting'.
I'd still have something like an electric commuter/shopper but a touring bike? Not yet.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
I like it, but I've liked Energicas for ages, love the Evo.
Bikes are bottom of the pile for electrification IMO, there's just not the budget to attack them properly. When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Isn't it that the batteries aren't ready yet? You need a certain weight of batteries to give a decent range. You can 'hide' the weight in a car but if 250 miles worth of batteries weighs twice as much (say) as a bike ICE it's pretty much a non-starter. So we're stuck with 'little' stuff that's good for 50-60 miles or 'big' bikes that don't go far enough for their size. Until they lighten the battery pack anything with a decent range will be way too heavy for a two wheeler. The Experia is pretty much a bike version of a Chelsea tractor for 'extreme commuting'.
I'd still have something like an electric commuter/shopper but a touring bike? Not yet.
This - the energy density is still low for electric compared to petrol/diesel.
As always - the battery tech is improving as very clever people find ways to manipulate chemicals in different ways.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?
Not so much the shape as the sheer lack of volume.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?
Not so much the shape as the sheer lack of volume.
Same difference.
Unless a totally different form is used (eg FF), you're constrained by the distance between the wheels, gap between the rider's knees and height of the seat. That defines the maximum available space.
Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?
Not so much the shape as the sheer lack of volume.
Same difference.
Unless a totally different form is used (eg FF), you're constrained by the distance between the wheels, gap between the rider's knees and height of the seat. That defines the maximum available space.
Exactly - which is less than a 1/4 of the volume available to a 4-wheeled vehicle.
As has been said by others, weight is the real killer with electric bikes. My old VFR is right at the top end of bike weight that I want to be wheeling about the place, and that's about 220kg wet weight. An additional 40kg for the Energica puts it right out of consideration for me, especially as the (quoted) performance is inferior to my 35 year old Viffer. There would have to be a seriously major breakthrough in battery energy density before I'd even start to look at a leccy bike.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 1:10 pm
As has been said by others, weight is the real killer with electric bikes. My old VFR is right at the top end of bike weight that I want to be wheeling about the place, and that's about 220kg wet weight. An additional 40kg for the Energica puts it right out of consideration for me, especially as the (quoted) performance is inferior to my 35 year old Viffer. There would have to be a seriously major breakthrough in battery energy density before I'd even start to look at a leccy bike.
Pretty much sums it up for me. North of 200kgs makes for a big old unit.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:16 am
When you consider that car OEMs are spending billions to build the whole "system" you can see bikes have a bit of an uphill struggle.
Possibly because cars can be fundamentally redesigned (the chassis becoming battery housing, etc) whereas, for a bike, the form is constrained by the shape of the rider, wheels and suspension?
Though of course right now, the vast majority of EVs are based on a modified ICE platform rather than being ground-up developments.
One of the more interesting developing battery technologies is the flexible battery that could end up being used for non-load bearing body panels.
