Energy bills

[irie]

It appears that France has the highest wholesale electricity prices in Europe, which might explain the haste to subsidise taxpayers electricity. 26 of their (EDF) 56 nuclear stations are out of action (or being decommissioned) as systemic corrosion has been found in the largest reactors and it's now been found in some of the medium sized ones too. Overall, they're actually having to import juice. If they have to ramp down the others they have a bit of a headache as 71% of their leccy is (was) from nuclear.

Wonder who is going to build all our new ones (EDF) and how much output the operators of our current ones (EDF) are pushing across the Channel?

How very interesting, I knew nothing whatsoever about corrosion problems in French reactors. Thank-you for this post.

[Count Steer]

It appears that France has the highest wholesale electricity prices in Europe, which might explain the haste to subsidise taxpayers electricity. 26 of their (EDF) 56 nuclear stations are out of action (or being decommissioned) as systemic corrosion has been found in the largest reactors and it's now been found in some of the medium sized ones too. Overall, they're actually having to import juice. If they have to ramp down the others they have a bit of a headache as 71% of their leccy is (was) from nuclear.

Wonder who is going to build all our new ones (EDF) and how much output the operators of our current ones (EDF) are pushing across the Channel?

How very interesting, I knew nothing whatsoever about corrosion problems in French reactors. Thank-you for this post.

It seems they may have an electricity problem to match Germany's gas problem (which was, oddly enough, created in part by Germany's decision to shut their nuclear plants down).

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

[Lutin]

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

What seems weird to me is that Rolls Royce have been trying to get government money for their small modular reactors and no one seems interested. Which is a bit odd as they do know what they're on about as they build them for the UK's nuclear subs.

[Mussels]

Now Russia has shut off the pipeline going through Poland expect more rises.

[Asian Boss]

The polluters will pay!

[Count Steer]

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

What seems weird to me is that Rolls Royce have been trying to get government money for their small modular reactors and no one seems interested. Which is a bit odd as they do know what they're on about as they build them for the UK's nuclear subs.

I don't know much about the proposed SMRs but because of the size constraints on subs they use highly enriched fuel and, I assume, they won't want to have lots of small (SMRs are only small cf conventional plants, they're much, much bigger than the units on subs) plants around using fuel that's getting up to weapons grade. So they'll have to be designed to use lower level fuel.

My guess is that if they were proven and available at 300MW+ there'd be a market but the government don't want to fund research and development while the pressing need is to replace the big ones.

(Gas powered are about 400MW, coal about 500MW and our nuclear ~1 gigwatt typically, subs look more powerful 'than they are cos they usually quote thermal output ie 150-200MW but the electrical output is about 1/3 of that @ 50-70MW....which is still quite a lot!).

[irie]

It appears that France has the highest wholesale electricity prices in Europe, which might explain the haste to subsidise taxpayers electricity. 26 of their (EDF) 56 nuclear stations are out of action (or being decommissioned) as systemic corrosion has been found in the largest reactors and it's now been found in some of the medium sized ones too. Overall, they're actually having to import juice. If they have to ramp down the others they have a bit of a headache as 71% of their leccy is (was) from nuclear.

Wonder who is going to build all our new ones (EDF) and how much output the operators of our current ones (EDF) are pushing across the Channel?

How very interesting, I knew nothing whatsoever about corrosion problems in French reactors. Thank-you for this post.

It seems they may have an electricity problem to match Germany's gas problem (which was, oddly enough, created in part by Germany's decision to shut their nuclear plants down).

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

[Count Steer]

How very interesting, I knew nothing whatsoever about corrosion problems in French reactors. Thank-you for this post.

It seems they may have an electricity problem to match Germany's gas problem (which was, oddly enough, created in part by Germany's decision to shut their nuclear plants down).

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

Maybe not so small. At peak there were 6000 employees. It was a mind boggling place with some boggling minds in it, but easy to get separated from reality if you lived on site, which a fair number did - 3 residential 'messes' and prefab houses + shops, social club, film club, music club. It was a bit like a university campus.

[irie]

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

Maybe not so small. At peak there were 6000 employees. It was a mind boggling place with some boggling minds in it, but easy to get separated from reality if you lived on site, which a fair number did - 3 residential 'messes' and prefab houses + shops, social club, film club, music club. It was a bit like a university campus.

Prior to working at AERE Harwell he worked at Deep River, Ontario. Bit of history there.

[Felix]

Its been quite mild up this end so we have not had the central heating on. Wife put it on tonight to dry the washing over the radiators The shit my smart meter is telling me she would have been cheaper chucking it in the tumble dryer

[Count Steer]

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

Maybe not so small. At peak there were 6000 employees. It was a mind boggling place with some boggling minds in it, but easy to get separated from reality if you lived on site, which a fair number did - 3 residential 'messes' and prefab houses + shops, social club, film club, music club. It was a bit like a university campus.

Prior to working at AERE Harwell he worked at Deep River, Ontario. Bit of history there.

Blimey! Don't tell me your step dad is 'the man who split the atom', Sir John Cockroft!!*

Deep River (CRL) is still going as a research facility although their reactor was decommissioned.

* I'm sure he can't be but Cockroft was a Director at both facilities.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My first 'real' job was at Rolls-Royce Submarines*, I worked in the Primary Components design department for a number of years, plus general looking around the company as you do.

They were talking about SMRs and civil Nuclear even when I worked there, 20ish years ago. In fact one of my mates/colleagues still works there and they're still talking about it. TBH, certainly based on what I saw anyway, I don't think R-R have a huge amount of capability to design a civil plant. They maintain/copy the designs of what their grandfathers built, nearly anything genuinely new comes from the Americans (there's quite a close collaboration between UK and US naval reactor programmes).

TBF they were pretty on it as far as core design goes though, working out the exact layout of fuel, moderator etc. inside the reactor. That's why modern UK subs never need refuelling in a 30 year life.

*Although much of the documentation still had their old name on it, "Rolls-Royce Associates"

[irie]

Maybe not so small. At peak there were 6000 employees. It was a mind boggling place with some boggling minds in it, but easy to get separated from reality if you lived on site, which a fair number did - 3 residential 'messes' and prefab houses + shops, social club, film club, music club. It was a bit like a university campus.

Prior to working at AERE Harwell he worked at Deep River, Ontario. Bit of history there.

Blimey! Don't tell me your step dad is 'the man who split the atom', Sir John Cockroft!!*

Deep River (CRL) is still going as a research facility although their reactor was decommissioned.

* I'm sure he can't be but Cockroft was a Director at both facilities.

The reactor tried to decommission itself!

No relation to Cockcroft btw.

[Count Steer]

Prior to working at AERE Harwell he worked at Deep River, Ontario. Bit of history there.

Blimey! Don't tell me your step dad is 'the man who split the atom', Sir John Cockroft!!*

Deep River (CRL) is still going as a research facility although their reactor was decommissioned.

* I'm sure he can't be but Cockroft was a Director at both facilities.

The reactor tried to decommission itself!

Oh. They all do that sir and no, it's not covered by the warranty.

[Ant]

How very interesting, I knew nothing whatsoever about corrosion problems in French reactors. Thank-you for this post.

It seems they may have an electricity problem to match Germany's gas problem (which was, oddly enough, created in part by Germany's decision to shut their nuclear plants down).

My personal gripe is that the UK were at the front of the field at one time in the design and build of nuclear and a number of our plants ran for years and years past their design life (some still are generating 20 years after it I think) and successive governments let it slip away. Partly because they thought they could just buy them 'off the shelf' from eg the USA and partly because of the general tide of opinion + decommissioning costs and waste storage + the 'dash for gas'. Now we have to go cap in hand to France/EDF and China(CGN) (although I think they've negotiated CGN out of the Hinkley, Sizewell and Bradwell builds). We could have been building and selling our own designs if we hadn't wound down the industry - R&D has gone - Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

I've been to Abingdon, had a walk along the river, over that bridge where that pub is, seemed very nice.

[Asian Boss]

I see energy bills are to rise by another grand a year.

Good to get the polluters paying.

Fuel and flights need to triple, with the money going to the fixer schemes.

[JackyJoll]

Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

Dounreay is being fully decommissioned and removed.

It’s taking so long that it does have some of the characteristics of a museum!

[JackyJoll]

My (step)father, a physicist, worked at AERE Harwell for many years. Abingdon-on-Thames is my home town. Small world.

Was he involved in the lunchtime rounders games?

[Count Steer]

Dounreay is now a 'museum' and Harwell is a business park.

Dounreay is being fully decommissioned and removed.

It’s taking so long that it does have some of the characteristics of a museum!

You're right, I was thinking of the old visitors centre but turns out that went in the 90s.

Taking a long time? 25 years for decommissioning (I think that's including the old navy/MoD reactors) but the is they estimate that the site will be available for other uses in..............2333!! (I though it was a misprint, but no, 300+ years! It's slipped by 33 years already )

[JackyJoll]

The last Dounreay reactor shut down in 1994.

Fuel reprocessing stopped in 1998.

I’d say decommissioning could have been committed to earlier than it was. I could also say “What’s the rush?”

I’d also say “2333” is a pessimistic exaggeration. The site will be pretty benign long before you’re dead.