The Self-Driving Vehicles Thread

[Rockburner]

Even the concept of 'platooning' trucks bothers me.

I saw the HELM convoy (3 trucks) on the M5 during one of the trial runs.

There was a fourth HGV - following them more closely than the second and third 'platooning' trucks were!

If the platooning trucks are less then a car length apart, there WILL be car drivers who try to get between them.

[Horse]

Even the concept of 'platooning' trucks bothers me.

I saw the HELM convoy (3 trucks) on the M5 during one of the trial runs.

There was a fourth HGV - following them more closely than the second and third 'platooning' trucks were!

If the platooning trucks are less then a car length apart, there WILL be car drivers who try to get between them.

Hence, I guess the radar(?) autobraking that the bike was testing.

[iansoady]

Even the concept of 'platooning' trucks bothers me. If say 4 trucks are platooned, running nose to tail and relying on sensors in the lead truck, can you imagine the time that another manual truck will take to overtake 4 in a row?

Hence the ban on HGVs in the outside lane of stretches of the 2 lane M42. Of course the problem still occurs before you get to that part of the road, and HGVs aren't always the slowest vehicles around.....

[The Spin Doctor]

Even the concept of 'platooning' trucks bothers me. If say 4 trucks are platooned, running nose to tail and relying on sensors in the lead truck, can you imagine the time that another manual truck will take to overtake 4 in a row? Last week I was in a tailback for abut 5 mins on the A30 while one truck tried to overtake another with a 0.2mph speed advantage, which promptly disappeared when we reached a hill.

Only five minutes?

On one memorable occasion I was on a two lane section of motorway and stuck behind two truckers playing 'lorry tag' where one truck is slightly faster on the flat or downhill and the other is slightly faster uphill for almost TEN MILES.

And don't start me on the congestion that builds up behind THREE lorries side by side on the four lane motorways.

One of the simplest ways to have reduced motorway congestion without the hassles, expense and ultimate risk of the 'smart motorways' would have been to restrict trucks to the inside two lanes of four lane motorways, and to have banned lorries from overtaking on two and three lane stretches during congested periods.

[Dodgy69]

I'd make them all stay in the inside lane, would be busy mind.

[Horse]

And don't start me on the congestion that builds up behind THREE lorries side by side on the four lane motorways.

One of the simplest ways to have reduced motorway congestion without the hassles, expense and ultimate risk of the 'smart motorways' would have been to restrict trucks to the inside two lanes of four lane motorways, and to have banned lorries from overtaking on two and three lane stretches during congested periods.

Pah rubbish idea.

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[Cousin Jack]

And don't start me on the congestion that builds up behind THREE lorries side by side on the four lane motorways.

One of the simplest ways to have reduced motorway congestion without the hassles, expense and ultimate risk of the 'smart motorways' would have been to restrict trucks to the inside two lanes of four lane motorways, and to have banned lorries from overtaking on two and three lane stretches during congested periods.

Pah rubbish idea.

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Needs an addition to the banning, anything over 7.5 t and any idiot who cannot or will not drive at a (true) 70 mph and get the hell out of the outside lane when they have completed their overtake. I get very frustrated at people who try to police the 70 mph limit with a non-calibrated speedo that is obviously reading 10mph faster than reality.

[Mr. Dazzle]

And don't start me on the congestion that builds up behind THREE lorries side by side on the four lane motorways.

One of the simplest ways to have reduced motorway congestion without the hassles, expense and ultimate risk of the 'smart motorways' would have been to restrict trucks to the inside two lanes of four lane motorways, and to have banned lorries from overtaking on two and three lane stretches during congested periods.

Pah rubbish idea.

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That bit of the A34 (going the other way) is the only place I ever got my old grey import 400 - with 33bhp restriction - to hit its 180kph limiter.

[The Spin Doctor]

Pah rubbish idea.

I'd forgotten that, but then I rarely ride (or drive) up it as it's such a ghastly road. Much prefer the minor roads that go the same way even if it does take longer.

[Horse]

Pah rubbish idea.

it's such a ghastly road.

Correct

Albeit it's achieved a 'Bermuda triangle'-esque reputation, where the crash stats and physical extents often expand to fit the case someone wants to make.*

However (he says, instantly doing something similar ) that section near the Ilsleys junctions is renowned for crashes. WfHome I no longer hear the traffic news, but there was usually a crash there every week.

* and ignore the finer details like 'pissed bloke crashes through centre barrier' and 'hgv driver choosing music on phone hits back end of queue', instead blaming the road.

[The Spin Doctor]

and ignore the finer details like 'pissed bloke crashes through centre barrier' and 'hgv driver choosing music on phone hits back end of queue', instead blaming the road.

Ah... just like a local rag's headline about "Oxford St sausage vendor's licence to sell sausages withdrawn". It goes on to imply that it's the fault of the 'labour-led council' when it was actually a clerical error, and the council was actually tory-led at the time of the error two years ago.

[Horse]

https://hubs.ly/Q01bMYWf0




Europe-first zero-occupancy autonomous vehicle journey on-road completed by Oxbotica
Oxbotica, a global leader in autonomous vehicle software, has completed the first safe and sustainable deployment of a zero-occupancy, fully autonomous, new-type electric vehicle on publicly accessible roads in Europe.

The all-electric AppliedEV vehicle, driven by Oxbotica, is operating in Oxford with no on-board driver, marking the next step in commercialising AV technology. The target for the first public on-road business deployment with Ocado Group, with a goods delivery variant, completing customer orders will be from 2023 onwards.

[The Spin Doctor]

Great. Let's clutter up the roads even more. One vehicle occupancy clearly isn't good enough, let's go for no people in the car at all! What a win for road safety... Vision Zero, here we come

[Horse]

let's go for no people in the car at all! What a win for road safety...

Well, as long as no-one else wanders in front of it and it doesn't wander off the road, then 'yes'

What could possibly go wrong?

[The Spin Doctor]

What could possibly go wrong?

Well... from this morning's forthcoming Elevenses...

"...tests of three leading systems found significant flaws when the cars were confronted with traffic conflicts.

The tests, performed by the American Automobile Association, on three vehicles - a 2021 Hyundai Santa Fe with Highway Driving Assist; a 2021 Subaru Forester with EyeSight; and a 2020 Tesla Model 3 with Autopilot.

These systems sit at the second level of autonomous driving, requiring drivers to stay alert and be ready to take over control as necessary. Currently, there are no vehicles available to the public that are capable of operating at a higher level.

The AAA tested a range of scenarios. The collision avoidance system was activated, then the driver drove at a set speed towards the targets without making any action to slow, stop or swerve. The cyclist and vehicle targets were both lightweight and designed to be harmless to the test vehicle and driver.

One was the response to slow-moving cars or cyclists ahead of them in the same lane, which evaluates adaptive cruise control (ACC), which decelerates or brakes a vehicle in response to slower or stopped objects ahead. All three vehicles detected their vehicle and cyclist targets and were able to match speed or stop in response.

But when faced with emergency situations the response was far worse. In tests to see how they coped with oncoming vehicles crossing the center line which relies on ADA only the Tesla Model 3 detected the oncoming car, and whilst it slowed the vehicle, a collision still resulted, despite the test happening at what the AAA said was "unrealistically low vehicle speeds" in which the ADA vehicle was moving at 15mph (24kph), and the target vehicle at 25mph (40kph).

Were the tests done "at higher speeds characteristic of rural two-lane highways, the AAA reported that it was unlikely that evaluated ADA systems would provide meaningful mitigation in the absence of driver intervention".

Greg Brannon, AAA's director of automotive engineering, said that the ACC tests were encouraging, but the head-on test should be enough to give drivers pause: "A head-on crash is the deadliest kind, and these systems should be optimized for the situations where they can help the most."

The third scenario, in which cyclists crossed the vehicles path, gave slightly better results. Two of the three vehicles took autonomous evasive action, but in each of five test runs, the Subaru failed to detect the cyclist and hit the bike without slowing.

Not entirely surprisingly, research shows that drivers expect their driving assistance technology to perform safely all the time, not just in some circumstances, since some of the marketing around driver-assistance technology already paints it as a no-hands, competent solution. The AAA said that a 2018 survey it performed found that 40 percent of consumers believed names like "Autopilot" indicated the vehicle was capable of fully autonomous driving.

"Drivers tell us they expect their current driving assistance technology to perform safely all the time," Brannon said. "But unfortunately, our testing demonstrates spotty performance is the norm rather than the exception."

[slowsider]

Great. Let's clutter up the roads even more. One vehicle occupancy clearly isn't good enough, let's go for no people in the car at all! What a win for road safety... Vision Zero, here we come

Goods delivery, according to the post.

But if ride-share becomes a thing, you'll get lots of pods positioning empty, and fewer vehicles overall.

[Horse]

What could possibly go wrong?

Well... from this morning's forthcoming Elevenses...

"...tests of three leading systems found significant flaws when the cars were confronted with traffic conflicts.

These systems sit at the second level of autonomous driving, requiring drivers to stay alert and be ready to take over control as necessary. Currently, there are no vehicles available to the public that are capable of operating at a higher level.

Whereas, on the SAE levels, the Oxbotica vehicle is at L4 or L5, so probably a step or two up in technology too.



When I peeked in the boot of an Oxbotica car four years ago, there wasn't any luggage space, it was all electronics and there were huge Lidar scanners on the roof.

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And I still don't know how Tesla get away with it.

[Mr. Dazzle]

AFAIK the new Mercedes S Class is fully homologated to drive at level 3 under certain conditions, less than 40ish mph IIRC.

[Horse]

AFAIK the new Mercedes S Class is fully homologated to drive at level 3 under certain conditions, less than 40ish mph IIRC.

Are any of those from the quoted article?

2021 Hyundai Santa Fe with Highway Driving Assist;
2021 Subaru Forester with EyeSight
2020 Tesla Model 3 with Autopilot.

[Mr. Dazzle]

No, but it says....

"Currently, there are no vehicles available to the public that are capable of operating at a higher level"

In fact as I understand it the reality goes even further than that. AFAIK the Tesla aren't actually properly homologated to use their self drive, leaving them in something of a legal grey area. The Merc is, meaning you can legally drive hands off and even wave to any passing coppers?