demographic wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:06 pm
Just heard that on average UKs energy prices were raising by 54% but Frances were only raising by about 4%.
Unconfirmed as it was just a bloke at work who mentioned it so has anyone got more concrete numbers on the subject and if its right, how come its so different?
3.5% here (for consumers, though I believe business owners have been hit harder).
But yeah, struggling to understand how UK prices have increased so much, other than privatisation?
As for France, they're pretty much energy sufficient due to their nuclear plants. Fairly sure they are the largest exporter of electricity in the world, so maybe not a fair comparison*
demographic wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:06 pm
Just heard that on average UKs energy prices were raising by 54% but Frances were only raising by about 4%.
Unconfirmed as it was just a bloke at work who mentioned it so has anyone got more concrete numbers on the subject and if its right, how come its so different?
That's what I've been told but I don't pay for my energy so can't confirm
I've also heard 2 reasons but have no idea if they are actually the reasons
1 France has a lot more nuclear energy (as a percentage of total used) than the UK so oil/ gas prices don't make much difference
2 Elections started today in France, maybe Macron is keeping it low until after the elections
TBH I'd have to let them off that one. You can't keep a promise made in 2019 (which is also pre-pandemic remember) when energy wholesale prices have gone insane in the meantime.
#1. You shouldn't make promises you can't keep and if you end up doing that, the very least you can do is apologise.
#2. With the energy firms announcing billions in profit, it's clear there absolutely no need to raise the prices by so much, it's just greed.
Every discounted unit of energy France is encouraging locals to use gets paid to Russia at full price by another country, nice that France is doing it's bit for the special military operation.
Mussels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:55 am
Every discounted unit of energy France is encouraging locals to use gets paid to Russia at full price by another country, nice that France is doing it's bit for the special military operation.
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Mussels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:55 am
Every discounted unit of energy France is encouraging locals to use gets paid to Russia at full price by another country, nice that France is doing it's bit for the special military operation.
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Or have I misunderstood your post?
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Mussels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:55 am
Every discounted unit of energy France is encouraging locals to use gets paid to Russia at full price by another country, nice that France is doing it's bit for the special military operation.
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Or have I misunderstood your post?
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Do you know that those discussions haven't taken place? And even if they have, you can't plumb electricity into a gas fire.
And even if there was the opportunity to 'just' switch from oil and gas over to electricity, is the cross-border network infrastructure in place to support that switch?
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Or have I misunderstood your post?
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Do you know that those discussions haven't taken place? And even if they have, you can't plumb electricity into a gas fire.
And even if there was the opportunity to 'just' switch from oil and gas over to electricity, is the cross-border network infrastructure in place to support that switch?
Much electricity is generated in gas powered stations so it is that simple, reducing electrical consumption also reduces gas comsumption.
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Do you know that those discussions haven't taken place? And even if they have, you can't plumb electricity into a gas fire.
And even if there was the opportunity to 'just' switch from oil and gas over to electricity, is the cross-border network infrastructure in place to support that switch?
Much electricity is generated in gas powered stations so it is that simple, reducing electrical consumption also reduces gas comsumption.
According to this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... _in_France France doesn't have any gas fired stations! I'm pretty sure that's not correct though as I know of 2 that were operating in 2018. It does have about 56 nuclear ones though.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Horse wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 am
And even if there was the opportunity to 'just' switch from oil and gas over to electricity, is the cross-border network infrastructure in place to support that switch?
Much electricity is generated in gas powered stations so it is that simple, reducing electrical consumption also reduces gas comsumption.
'Much electricity' means much network capability too.
It's like us buying LNG from the USA, there's a finite number of ships to transport the stuff.
From figures I saw somewhere, reducing home heating makes a small % reduction in fuel use. If so, subsidising the price to limit rises in bills (still an increase) is hardly going to make a massive difference to France's consumption and so capability to support Germany.
However, if combined with stringent cut-backs on usage in Germany, that might reduce the need for gas.
Last edited by Horse on Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Horse wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 am
And even if there was the opportunity to 'just' switch from oil and gas over to electricity, is the cross-border network infrastructure in place to support that switch?
Much electricity is generated in gas powered stations so it is that simple, reducing electrical consumption also reduces gas comsumption.
According to this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... _in_France France doesn't have any gas fired stations! I'm pretty sure that's not correct though as I know of 2 that were operating in 2018. It does have about 56 nuclear ones though.
I think he meant that carrying buckets of electricity across the border would reduce German reliance on Russian gas to generate electricity.
Electricity is transferred between European nations all the time, nuclear can't be switched off so when usage is low in France they export what's left and other countries turn their gas plants down.
It's why electricity prices have gone up with gas prices and European nations (UK is part of that) can all affect how much money Russia gets by using less electricity.
Mussels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Electricity is transferred between European nations all the time, nuclear can't be switched off so when usage is low in France they export what's left and other countries turn their gas plants down.
It's why electricity prices have gone up with gas prices and European nations (UK is part of that) can all affect how much money Russia gets by using less electricity.
Europe is v interconnected (as is the UK, but slightly differently ie not synchronous, we also have gas connectivity to import or export via so we could use less and push some across the Channel).
Germany Electricity Imports: France data was reported at 301,139.000 MWh in Jan 2022. This records an increase from the previous number of 269,649.000 MWh for Dec 2021.
So do you know that an increase in transfer hasn't been discussed or agreed?
Mussels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:55 am
Every discounted unit of energy France is encouraging locals to use gets paid to Russia at full price by another country, nice that France is doing it's bit for the special military operation.
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Or have I misunderstood your post?
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Increases have been capped at 4%, that's not a reduction Part of the reason that France can cap tariffs at such a low rate is due to the profit it makes from exporting to Germany.
So it's France's fault that other countries are either not self-sufficient or use non-Russian fuel?
Or have I misunderstood your post?
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Increases have been capped at 4%, that's not a reduction Part of the reason that France can cap tariffs at such a low rate is due to the profit it makes from exporting to Germany.
They are selling energy for less than market price, it's a reduction.
France is reducing the cost for locals which will encourage them to be wasteful, if they had saved the energy locally then Germany could buy it from France instead of Russia.
Increases have been capped at 4%, that's not a reduction Part of the reason that France can cap tariffs at such a low rate is due to the profit it makes from exporting to Germany.
They are selling energy for less than market price, it's a reduction.
So even though they are paying more for their energy (not less), they'll be more wasteful because it's below market price?
It appears that France has the highest wholesale electricity prices in Europe, which might explain the haste to subsidise taxpayers electricity. 26 of their (EDF) 56 nuclear stations are out of action (or being decommissioned) as systemic corrosion has been found in the largest reactors and it's now been found in some of the medium sized ones too. Overall, they're actually having to import juice. If they have to ramp down the others they have a bit of a headache as 71% of their leccy is (was) from nuclear.
Wonder who is going to build all our new ones (EDF) and how much output the operators of our current ones (EDF) are pushing across the Channel?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Part of the reason that France can cap tariffs at such a low rate is due to the profit it makes from exporting to Germany.
