Most influential bikes?

[mangocrazy]

Yes, I owned a Honda CB77 (305cc) that had not one but two sets of points. They wre a f'n nightmare, especially as the heels always wore at different rates. Get one right and the other was off. Which was why I was so delighted when CDI became A Thing. I remember the 1970 Kawasaki KH500 triple being the first commercially available bike with CDI and wondered how long it would take to filter down to bikes I could afford. !0 years, as it happened...

[Bigjawa]

Even in the car world, points hung on into the 80s. One of the main selling points (pardon the pun) of my 1980 Lancia Beta Spider was that it had electronic ignition, not the dreaded points. It also had disc brakes on all 4 wheels, but Lancia (in those days) were always ahead of the curve.

My 1989 Fiat Panda had points, although it was the bargain basement 750L

[Skub]

Yes, I owned a Honda CB77 (305cc) that had not one but two sets of points. They wre a f'n nightmare, especially as the heels always wore at different rates. Get one right and the other was off. Which was why I was so delighted when CDI became A Thing. I remember the 1970 Kawasaki KH500 triple being the first commercially available bike with CDI and wondered how long it would take to filter down to bikes I could afford. !0 years, as it happened...

Boyer Bransden did a good trade in the mean time. My Z1 had points and I bought their kit.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I adjusted the points on my mate's car for him a few times (Ford Capri) sometime in the early 00s. Remains to the this day the only vehcile I've ever needed to do it on, my old Triumphs have boyer boxes.

IIRC that's also the only car I've ever driven which had a manual choke, although not the only carb car. Bikes on the other hand....I've got manual chokes even now Although weirdly, the newest bike I own is the only one with a choke.

[mangocrazy]

Yes, I owned a Honda CB77 (305cc) that had not one but two sets of points. They wre a f'n nightmare, especially as the heels always wore at different rates. Get one right and the other was off. Which was why I was so delighted when CDI became A Thing. I remember the 1970 Kawasaki KH500 triple being the first commercially available bike with CDI and wondered how long it would take to filter down to bikes I could afford. !0 years, as it happened...

Boyer Bransden did a good trade in the mean time. My Z1 had points and I bought their kit.

Yes, they certainly did. Not sure who the outfit were, but I got so pissed off with the dual sets of points that I bought a black box that didn't completely delete the points but just used them as a low-voltage trigger. They had a little unit somewhere in the West Midlands - not sure if that was BB or not. They weren't an unqualified success...

I persevered with the CB77 through most of the 70s, then had a year off bikes before returning to the fold when Yamaha annouinced their RD350LC.

Which had CDI, not fucking points...

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

In a similar vein...

I dunno what model(s) it would have been, but the first medium/big capacity Japanese bikes to come to Europe and especially Britain in the late 60s surely influenced the whole industry. No kickstart, no contact breakers, brakes that actually work etc.

Well...the brit iron ultimately went out of Business, so maybe they were less "influential" and more "supplanting".

Oh no they didn't, pre 1980s Japanese disc brakes are really terrible (apart from Yamahas with the twin piston calipers)

[mangocrazy]

In a similar vein...

I dunno what model(s) it would have been, but the first medium/big capacity Japanese bikes to come to Europe and especially Britain in the late 60s surely influenced the whole industry. No kickstart, no contact breakers, brakes that actually work etc.

Well...the brit iron ultimately went out of Business, so maybe they were less "influential" and more "supplanting".

Oh no they didn't, pre 1980s Japanese disc brakes are really terrible (apart from Yamahas with the twin piston calipers)

To be fair the science of pad material was, if not in its infancy, still pretty early. When sintered pads became a thing you did stand a better than even chance of stopping in the wet. But to get around the patent on opposed-piston brakes, most of the Japanese went for sliding calipers, which remain one of my pet hates. Certainly the improvement when I went from standard Yamaha (sliding) calipers to AP Lockeed opposed piston jobs on my 350LC was dramatic and immediately noticeable.

[Mr. Dazzle]

TBF when I first got my VFR (which had the fork lowers + opposed callipers off a Firestorm FWIW) it wouldn't stop in the wet either. Like, properly alarmingly shit to point of being dangerous. Nothing would happen at all when you first pulled the lever, it was like the pads weren't even there. It took maybe half a second for stuff to begin working, but of course it felt like 6 weeks.

This was in 2016 so clearly some issues remain

[mangocrazy]

TBF when I first got my VFR (which had the fork lowers + opposed callipers off a Firestorm FWIW) it wouldn't stop in the wet either. Like, properly alarmingly shit to point of being dangerous. Nothing would happen at all when you first pulled the lever, it was like the pads weren't even there. It took maybe half a second for stuff to begin working, but of course it felt like 6 weeks.

This was in 2016 so clearly some issues remain

Ah, that'll be the Missin' calipers I've heard so much about...

Sounds like some serious pad material mismatch going on there...

[Skub]

TBF when I first got my VFR (which had the fork lowers + opposed callipers off a Firestorm FWIW) it wouldn't stop in the wet either. Like, properly alarmingly shit to point of being dangerous. Nothing would happen at all when you first pulled the lever, it was like the pads weren't even there. It took maybe half a second for stuff to begin working, but of course it felt like 6 weeks.

This was in 2016 so clearly some issues remain

I had that very 70s experience on a 98 ZX9R. I made the mistake of fitting EBC disc and pads. Worst rubbish ever,no argument. Worked fine in the dry and massive lag in the wet. To this day I'd never buy anything with EBC on it.

[KungFooBob]

Did it have aftermarket EBC discs?

They had a bit of a rep for not working in the wet.

EDIT:

Beaten to it!

[mangocrazy]

I've never got on with EBC discs or pads either. It's SBS, Ferodo or PFC pads for me, and PFM ductile iron discs.

[Mr. Dazzle]

LOL @ Missin' callipers, yeah that's the one.

I actually experienced a bit of anxiety remembering and typing about it, it was that unexpected You just kinda think the brakes are gonna work right, so when you pull the lever and nothing happens while you're heading towards the back of a van it's quite shocking Doubly so 'cause you of course pull harder, so when the brakes do suddenly dry out and start working you lock the front wheel.

It was my commuter at the time so I had to keep using it while I waited to get new pads. Got into the habbit of leaving huge gaps in the wet and dragging the front occassionally.

[mangocrazy]

They first got the Missin' nickname when Eddie Lawson had a major off at (I think) Laguna Seca due to brake failure. Initially the finger of blame was pointed at his mechanic, but it later transpired that it was a design fault that would allow the pads to drop out under certain circumstances...!

Yes, that kind of thing really does prey on your mind. I get random dreams once in a while that I'm tugging on the front brake and nothing's happening...

[Taipan]

When I got my Harley I pulled the front brake up for the first time and panicked, as there was what could be called, at best, a slowing, but certainly not braking!

As the bike was covered in the silicon shiny spray and I was sliding about on the seat, I just assumed the brakes were all contaminated with silicon grease. I got home and pulled the pads out and sprayed them and the discs with brake cleaner and gave them a light scrubbing with wire wool etc. Got back on it and found it was no different. The brakes really were that shit!

[mangocrazy]

The Harrison Billet company had (and probably still have) a very nice little earner making calipers for Harleys that actually worked...

[KungFooBob]

I replaced the disc, pads and line on my Bullet... made no difference (except the lever stopped pulsing). Good job it's got no power, because stopping takes some planning.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

A lot of the problems with older Japanese bike brakes are the master cylinders which are generally too big for the brake calipers, giving wooden feeling brakes, LC350s come with a 5/8 master cylinder but the brakes are much better with a 1/4 master cylinder from a 250LC.

[Yorick]

The brakes on the Husky are shite. Bit scary when coming down a volcano.

[Yorick]

A lot of the problems with older Japanese bike brakes are the master cylinders which are generally too big for the brake calipers, giving wooden feeling brakes, LC350s come with a 5/8 master cylinder but the brakes are much better with a 1/4 master cylinder from a 250LC.

The brakes on my 350 were amazing. I was a demon outbraking folk