Power Steering, for bikes???

[Skub]

Anyway.

Keith Code invented power steering for bikes aaaages ago.

Invented aka 'gave it a name'

You'll be telling us Newton didn't invent gravity next.

That was Keith Code too. The guy knows everything.

[slowsider]

Invented aka 'gave it a name'

You'll be telling us Newton didn't invent gravity next.

That was Keith Code too. The guy knows everything.

He only had $10 worth of attention tho'.

[Horse]

Anyway.

Keith Code invented power steering for bikes aaaages ago.

Invented aka 'gave it a name'

You'll be telling us Newton didn't invent gravity next.

He taught the Earth how to suck

[mangocrazy]

It makes a lot of sense really, electric things can move more quickly and push as well as passively react. I know for a fact one supercar OEM is developing electric dampers for their future models. They'll be able to actively push the wheels up/down so you can do things like "hold them up" as the wheel skips over a pothole.

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack. You could also lower the car to a degree that made it impossible to clamp the wheel(s). More than one way to skin a cat.

[Skub]

Invented aka 'gave it a name'

You'll be telling us Newton didn't invent gravity next.

He taught the Earth how to suck

He and Tom Cruise are actually Thetans,like Connor Macleod of the clan Macleod,the pair of them,big swords,the lot.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It makes a lot of sense really, electric things can move more quickly and push as well as passively react. I know for a fact one supercar OEM is developing electric dampers for their future models. They'll be able to actively push the wheels up/down so you can do things like "hold them up" as the wheel skips over a pothole.

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack. You could also lower the car to a degree that made it impossible to clamp the wheel(s). More than one way to skin a cat.

McLaren do the same thing now with their cars. Its still only a reactive system though, it can't "push" the wheels beyond (relatively) slow movement to change ride height.

But yeah...as I often say: There are no new ideas!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Not sure if you have watched the programme about this but that statement is inaccurate.

Also, there is no mention of MCAS in the manual at all other than in the section for acronyms.

Snip

Yes I know all that. The point is, the whole situation which lead to the aircraft crashing was recoverable if the pilots had known what to do. In fact the same situation had been recovered by a pilot who DID know what to do in other examples, unfortunately that knowledge was not as universal as it should have been.

Of course, the situation shouldn't have needed recovering in the first place, which speaks to my larger point about the difficulty of integrating complex operations and human operators.

[wull]

It’s the fact you stated that it did what it was meant to do during those accidents, which it didn’t, you made it out like the system was working correctly.

The other incidents were pilots who were aware of the MCAS, lucky them.

[Count Steer]

It makes a lot of sense really, electric things can move more quickly and push as well as passively react. I know for a fact one supercar OEM is developing electric dampers for their future models. They'll be able to actively push the wheels up/down so you can do things like "hold them up" as the wheel skips over a pothole.

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack. You could also lower the car to a degree that made it impossible to clamp the wheel(s). More than one way to skin a cat.

I had one of the last off the production line CXs (a Croisette saloon), the suspension was quite a party trick and, as you say, unclampable Sadly it was also the weak point (apart from the weedy engine) of the whole thing. Once it went wrong.....

[Horse]

one supercar OEM is developing electric dampers for their future models. They'll be able to actively push the wheels up/down so you can do things like "hold them up" as the wheel skips over a pothole.

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack.

Its still only a reactive system though, it can't "push" the wheels beyond (relatively) slow movement to change ride height.

But yeah...as I often say: There are no new ideas!

Volvo had a test system that could raise the suspension on the 'outside' of a corner, to lean the car into the bend.

Apparently much more comfortable for the occupants.

Unfortunately, it reduced 'feel' so much for the driver that there was little feedback on reaching grip limits.

[mangocrazy]

It makes a lot of sense really, electric things can move more quickly and push as well as passively react. I know for a fact one supercar OEM is developing electric dampers for their future models. They'll be able to actively push the wheels up/down so you can do things like "hold them up" as the wheel skips over a pothole.

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack. You could also lower the car to a degree that made it impossible to clamp the wheel(s). More than one way to skin a cat.

I had one of the last off the production line CXs (a Croisette saloon), the suspension was quite a party trick and, as you say, unclampable Sadly it was also the weak point (apart from the weedy engine) of the whole thing. Once it went wrong.....

Yes, unless you were on first name terms with a (good) Citroen specialist you were stuffed. Conventional garages didn't have a clue. I had a TD XM in the mid/late '90s and it was a fabulous car but spent more time in the garage due to overheating issues than it spent on the road. Eventually it was diagnosed with a porous cylinder head. I particularly liked the suspension options - standard for when you wanted to waft along and sport for when you wanted to 'make progress'.

[The Spin Doctor]

You'll be telling us Newton didn't invent gravity next.

Code also invented POSITIVE steering, apparently

[Dodgy69]

Citroens of a certain age that had hydropneumatic suspension had the ability to modify active ride height and self-level. Its party trick was the ability to change a wheel without the use of a jack. You could also lower the car to a degree that made it impossible to clamp the wheel(s). More than one way to skin a cat.

I had one of the last off the production line CXs (a Croisette saloon), the suspension was quite a party trick and, as you say, unclampable Sadly it was also the weak point (apart from the weedy engine) of the whole thing. Once it went wrong.....

Yes, unless you were on first name terms with a (good) Citroen specialist you were stuffed. Conventional garages didn't have a clue. I had a TD XM in the mid/late '90s and it was a fabulous car but spent more time in the garage due to overheating issues than it spent on the road. Eventually it was diagnosed with a porous cylinder head. I particularly liked the suspension options - standard for when you wanted to waft along and sport for when you wanted to 'make progress'.

Not that fabulous then..

[demographic]

Seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

[The Spin Doctor]

Seems like a solution looking for a problem to me.

About the only benefit I can see is actually damping out steering wobbles without making the steering heavy at the same time.

The usual complaint of power steering seems to be that it makes it feel 'dead'. I can't imagine that would be great on a bike where we depend so much on front end feel to sense what the bike's doing. It's not so important when in the wheel at each corner shopping buggy.

[mangocrazy]

I had one of the last off the production line CXs (a Croisette saloon), the suspension was quite a party trick and, as you say, unclampable Sadly it was also the weak point (apart from the weedy engine) of the whole thing. Once it went wrong.....

Yes, unless you were on first name terms with a (good) Citroen specialist you were stuffed. Conventional garages didn't have a clue. I had a TD XM in the mid/late '90s and it was a fabulous car but spent more time in the garage due to overheating issues than it spent on the road. Eventually it was diagnosed with a porous cylinder head. I particularly liked the suspension options - standard for when you wanted to waft along and sport for when you wanted to 'make progress'.

Not that fabulous then..

Once the cyl head issue was sorted, it was a fabulous car. But I had to sell it (along with a couple of bikes) to keep food on the table when I was out of work for 15 months when the Y2K bubble burst..

[Hairybiker84]

Active suspension, nothing new there then, can't be arsed googling when that came about, I drove a very simplified version of it on a Citroen Xantia 20ish years ago. Didn't Lotus put the full fat version on an Esprit?
Bullshit electronic intervention of things that don't need it, let down by flaky software and cut price electrical components and connectors, bought by brain-washed idiots, says it all really.

[Hairybiker84]

Not sure if you have watched the programme about this but that statement is inaccurate.

Also, there is no mention of MCAS in the manual at all other than in the section for acronyms.

Snip

Yes I know all that. The point is, the whole situation which lead to the aircraft crashing was recoverable if the pilots had known what to do. In fact the same situation had been recovered by a pilot who DID know what to do in other examples, unfortunately that knowledge was not as universal as it should have been.

Of course, the situation shouldn't have needed recovering in the first place, which speaks to my larger point about the difficulty of integrating complex operations and human operators.

Thankfully there's no guesstimation in how to fly a plane, especially one full of disconnection between pilot input and control output. You learn to fly these aircraft from manuals and simulators. If you 'had to know what to do' and pilots didn't, blame fairly and squarely on the manufacturer who devised the training regime in the first place.

[Count Steer]

Active suspension, nothing new there then, can't be arsed googling when that came about, I drove a very simplified version of it on a Citroen Xantia 20ish years ago. Didn't Lotus put the full fat version on an Esprit?
Bullshit electronic intervention of things that don't need it, let down by flaky software and cut price electrical components and connectors, bought by brain-washed idiots, says it all really.

It's getting more and more difficult to buy things (not just bikes) without it.

[Horse]

Active suspension, nothing new there then, can't be arsed googling when that came about, I drove a very simplified version of it on a Citroen Xantia 20ish years ago. Didn't Lotus put the full fat version on an Esprit?
Bullshit electronic intervention of things that don't need it, let down by flaky software and cut price electrical components and connectors, bought by brain-washed idiots, says it all really.

It's getting more and more difficult to buy things (not just bikes) without it.

I read that as, specifically, the Lotus eaters, errr, buyers.