Will Russia invade the Ukraine?

[Yambo]

Is that gas lighting? I'm not sure exactly on the term, but I think it's when someone is clearly on the money but you try and make them feel like they're a bit mental because the truth is too unpleasant.

Interesting how there is not a single condemnation for Ukraine and their white supremacist Nazi army regiments.

Boris and Truss have jumped into bed with the Iranians, they're sucking up to the Saudis, tacitly supporting Eastern European Nazism, but not a peep out of any of you.
No. 10 has a party and it's full pitchforks out, but all that going on above and you're oh so quietly climbing into bed with Boris now because it suits you.

You still looking to buy a house in Suffolk?

[Screwdriver]

Interesting how there is not a single condemnation for Ukraine and their white supremacist Nazi army regiments.

Where are you seeing this information though. I've only heard the accusations, I've not seen even an attempt at any proof on credible media outlets. If it's all links to Youtube-ranting from the usual suspects than you'll have to excuse me for having had my blinkers on - it's automatic.

It won't be on the mainstream media but it's common knowledge for example that Zelensky needed support from the extreme right wing to secure his election victory. I think they were already operating as an independent counter insurgency group (in the Donbas region?). definitely not working for the regular Ukrainian armed forces, fighting against Russian "sympathisers" who definitely weren't just the Russian army in civvies.

I seem to recall watching a YouTube video where a journo follows these chaps while on ops. They are fucking hard core white supremacists which while despicable and indefensible, is exactly the sort of cunt you want fighting for you...

Just out of interest, you know Zelensky was an actor/comedian right? Life imitating art he played the part of someone who accidentally becomes the president. Damn, he looks good on telly...

[irie]

Interesting how there is not a single condemnation for Ukraine and their white supremacist Nazi army regiments.

Where are you seeing this information though. I've only heard the accusations, I've not seen even an attempt at any proof on credible media outlets. If it's all links to Youtube-ranting from the usual suspects than you'll have to excuse me for having had my blinkers on - it's automatic.

There was a story on the BBC this morning about them.
Congress have debated it. Amnesty have reported on it. The UN have.
IIRC when Trump was in power the democrats lobbied to them put on the known terrorist watch lists but Trump had something going on with them (training I think) so it was brushed under the carpet.
Etc.

Depends if you think they’re credible.

There are even interviews with them on film, I think Vice or someone similar did a documentary about foreign mercenaries that were connected to known white supremacist banned groups had joined them or were seconded to them. A couple of years ago now so it might be difficult to find since it’s very inconvenient for the west.

Would you care to publish here the evidence to support the above ~8 propositions? Thanks.

[Count Steer]

Nobody has raised any issues regarding scuttling around trying to blag oil?

Ahem.

"Is it coincidence that they released the hostages on the same day that Our Glorious Leader put his dignity in the cupboard and waddled off to meet the chief head hunter, cap in one hand and petrol can in the other? He's going to get a bit of a grilling about any new entente with Iran."

[irie]

Would you care to publish here the evidence to support the above ~8 propositions? Thanks.

No im on my phone and I’m not your secretary nor your teacher, if you can’t be arsed to do your own research then stay quiet.

If you can't be arsed to produce evidence to substantiate your claims then obviously no-one will believe you.

[irie]

Nobody has raised any issues regarding scuttling around trying to blag oil?

Ahem.

"Is it coincidence that they released the hostages on the same day that Our Glorious Leader put his dignity in the cupboard and waddled off to meet the chief head hunter, cap in one hand and petrol can in the other? He's going to get a bit of a grilling about any new entente with Iran."

A very nasty business, but if you don't deal with them the lights go out. Which is why Germany is still paying Russia about $500m per week for oil alone, but I don't know the natural gas numbers which I believe are far larger. Germany is effectively financing the Russian war in Ukraine. An ugly equation.

As an aside, even Lynton Crosby could not have planned the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a dead cat to chuck on the table to divert attention from so-called 'Partygate'.

[Screwdriver]

Nobody has raised any issues regarding scuttling around trying to blag oil?

Ahem.

"Is it coincidence that they released the hostages on the same day that Our Glorious Leader put his dignity in the cupboard and waddled off to meet the chief head hunter, cap in one hand and petrol can in the other? He's going to get a bit of a grilling about any new entente with Iran."

I have no problem with that. My only problem currently is htf to pay my fuel bill. Thanks to the CCP/Russian funded extremist left wing climate change activists that run the USA, America is abandoning its own oil production which has already thrown a spanner in the works.

This sanctions war against Russia is all well and good but it's cutting off your nose to spite your face. Politics and diplomacy seems to be taking a back seat while the world leaders are playing silly buggers.

I think Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's release is actually coincident with the UK paying its debt for some weapons deal from the 70's. I'll happily take Iranian oil thanks. No worse than the Saudi's, no worse than Russia. Still buy all my tat from the CCP but that decision is kinda out of our hands now too...

[JamJar]

Interesting how there is not a single condemnation for Ukraine and their white supremacist Nazi army regiments.

Where are you seeing this information though. I've only heard the accusations, I've not seen even an attempt at any proof on credible media outlets. If it's all links to Youtube-ranting from the usual suspects than you'll have to excuse me for having had my blinkers on - it's automatic.

It won't be on the mainstream media but it's common knowledge for example that Zelensky needed support from the extreme right wing to secure his election victory. I think they were already operating as an independent counter insurgency group (in the Donbas region?). definitely not working for the regular Ukrainian armed forces, fighting against Russian "sympathisers" who definitely weren't just the Russian army in civvies.

I seem to recall watching a YouTube video where a journo follows these chaps while on ops. They are fucking hard core white supremacists which while despicable and indefensible, is exactly the sort of cunt you want fighting for you...

Just out of interest, you know Zelensky was an actor/comedian right? Life imitating art he played the part of someone who accidentally becomes the president. Damn, he looks good on telly...

Zelensky got 73% of the popular vote, hardly sounds like he needed help to win, unless you are suggesting that a quarter of the population are Nazis willing to vote for a Jew.

[irie]

If you can't be arsed to produce evidence to substantiate your claims then obviously no-one will believe you.

Good.
Stay quiet then, you’re mostly ignored anyway.

Ignore me too, no probs. It's what you do anyway with anyone who disagrees with you or, perish the thought, knows more than you about anything!

[Count Steer]

Nobody has raised any issues regarding scuttling around trying to blag oil?

Ahem.

"Is it coincidence that they released the hostages on the same day that Our Glorious Leader put his dignity in the cupboard and waddled off to meet the chief head hunter, cap in one hand and petrol can in the other? He's going to get a bit of a grilling about any new entente with Iran."

Ahh fair play, missed it.

How do you feel about Ukraine being at least partially managed under Nazi ideology?

It was in another thread.

Any such regiments should have been dismantled a long time ago and really, really should be as soon as the Russians leave. I'm not convinced that the current government is happy about them. If they are, they shouldn't be. They shouldn't be allowed to develop as any sort of political power base. It's a stain.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Have you ever considered that maybe some things can be taken as read Iccy?

For example, I don't recall seeing you directly condone the bombing of hospitals in Ukraine. Am I to infer that you support that then? Of course not.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I agree...but FWIW this whole right wing thing has hardly been brushed under the carpet AFAICT. There have been front page articles about it on the mainstream news sites in the last few weeks for example.

The "nutter" tag for me comes in when people are a)claiming that its a secret that is hidden away and b)Zelensky - a Jew who won a huge chunk of the popular vote - owes his success to their support.

As for Iranian oil and the like. Personally I'd rather pay a higher gas bill, but I know most wouldn't and many can't.

[irie]

Agree with you Dazzle.

[Screwdriver]

I agree...but FWIW this whole right wing thing has hardly been brushed under the carpet AFAICT. There have been front page articles about it on the mainstream news sites in the last few weeks for example.

The "nutter" tag for me comes in when people are a)claiming that its a secret that is hidden away and b)Zelensky - a Jew who won a huge chunk of the popular vote - owes his success to their support.

As for Iranian oil and the like. Personally I'd rather pay a higher gas bill, but I know most wouldn't and many can't.

I believe the group were banned from Twitter etc. but recently big tech decided they weren't so bad after all. Must be nice to let <whoever they are> do all the thinking for you. (I don't mean "you" you @Mr. Dazzle )

Thank goodness the entire mainstream media industry and big tech are still protecting us from Trump. Bet he still wins the next election tho...

Anyhow, I think you should out those nutters claiming the neo-Nazi group was "a secret" or that Zelensky "owes his success" to their support. I did say he "needed their support" since he most certainly did need it in the more recent local elections. That comment was based on some report or other I'll try and dig out.

I have seen that very figure you quote which refers to the landslide victory in the presidential elections. More recently, his party is struggling to hold on to power having lost all of the local mayoral elections to Russian backed political figures. I think that, as much as anything, gave Putin all the excuse he needed to go in an "rescue" the country.

It will be difficult to quote any sources for that "Russian propaganda" since it has all been heavily censored. I think it is an important question to consider rather than just ignore or claim it doesn't exist as an issue. Other opinions are available. Doesn't make me a "nutter" thanks for asking.

[Cousin Jack]

.............More recently, his party is struggling to hold on to power having lost all of the local mayoral elections to Russian backed political figures. I think that, as much as anything, gave Putin all the excuse he needed to go in an "rescue" the country.

Strange that. Only next door in Belarus that Russian-backed chap Lukashenko won his recent election too. Russia always seems to pick the most popular people.

[irie]

Ignore me too, no probs. It's what you do anyway with anyone who disagrees with you or, perish the thought, knows more than you about anything!

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno

Bruno was burnt at the stake in 1600 by the Catholic Church. You won't know what for of course, so I'll help you out. He was executed mainly because of his belief in cosmic pluralism engendered by his own and others observation of the cosmos, and he refused to recant. Very much like your own views, much akin to religious beliefs, which incorporate non-objective and unverifiable conspiracy theories from which you have created a self-consistent but false view of the world.

[Supermofo]

Have you ever considered that maybe some things can be taken as read Iccy?

For example, I don't recall seeing you directly condone the bombing of hospitals in Ukraine. Am I to infer that you support that then? Of course not.

Yeah, catching up with this thread and it's got very weird. Suddenly everyone is somehow a Nazi for not virtual signalling explicitly in a post.

Anyone not disagreeing with Nazis is an arsehole. But equally I'm not seeing the Russians as the good guys here.

And then its gone ming mong ping pong prove this that or the other as usual.

Sounds like everyone needs a night off and a chill.

Just hope peace talks work at somepoint as in the meantime lots of civilians and young men in uniform on both sides are dying for not much good.

[weeksy]

I'm just hoping once this all does down we can go back to being virtual friends. I feel some people are burning bridges.

[G.P]

in the spirit of online discussion tradition @Supermofo I suspect you may have meant "virtue signalling"?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Is that gas lighting? I'm not sure exactly on the term, but I think it's when someone is clearly on the money but you try and make them feel like they're a bit mental because the truth is too unpleasant.

Interesting how there is not a single condemnation for Ukraine and their white supremacist Nazi army regiments.

Boris and Truss have jumped into bed with the Iranians, they're sucking up to the Saudis, tacitly supporting Eastern European Nazism, but not a peep out of any of you.
No. 10 has a party and it's full pitchforks out, but all that going on above and you're oh so quietly climbing into bed with Boris now because it suits you.

You still looking to buy a house in Suffolk?

He'll fit right in