Will Russia invade the Ukraine?

[Kneerly Down]

Between NATO playing games and the Nazi regiments it’s no surprise Putin eventually had enough.

Thank goodness that nice Mr Putin doesn't play games or have nasty enforcers on the streets.
Yes, I can see why he thought the best strategy was to invade the whole of Ukraine and bomb the cities!
It's great how Mr Putin is being very clear about what is going on, letting the press freely report the 'special operation' and has the whole country behind him.

[Count Steer]

Between NATO playing games and the Nazi regiments it’s no surprise Putin eventually had enough.

Thank goodness that nice Mr Putin doesn't play games or have nasty killers on the streets of Salisbury.

Minor tweak ^^^

[irie]

FT reported, a few days ago (I don't know whether the official viewpoints have altered):

https://amp.ft.com/content/6c52b083-d38 ... 47c913065f

While western nations condemned Russia’s aggression, New Delhi’s loyalty to its longstanding partner held firm. Last week India, as a temporary UN Security Council member, abstained from voting on a resolution to condemn Russia’s invasion, along with China and the UAE.

The east and west have different viewpoints? Blimey, does anyone else know about this?

Contrary to you oft repeated opinion, many others are indeed able to assess the veracity of news from different (inherently biased) sources in the same way as you say you are able to. Or possibly even better than you since they may have had the benefit of a far better formal education than you and furthermore do not live in an autocracy as you do.

[Potter]

Contrary to you oft repeated opinion, many others are indeed able to assess the veracity of news from different (inherently biased) sources in the same way as you say you are able to. Or possibly even better than you since they may have had the benefit of a far better formal education than you and furthermore do not live in an autocracy as you do.

You've only ever lived in a little goldfish bowl and the only thing you have to rely on is whatever you've read, whereas there are people out travelling the world with very little formal education that know more about life than you ever will.
You boomers crack me up.

[JackyJoll]

Just been watching Ukrainians looting shops in a mall, stealing essential items like mobile phone cases and fashion shoes.

That’s terrible. Anyone on the side we like should be much nicer than that.

[irie]

Contrary to you oft repeated opinion, many others are indeed able to assess the veracity of news from different (inherently biased) sources in the same way as you say you are able to. Or possibly even better than you since they may have had the benefit of a far better formal education than you and furthermore do not live in an autocracy as you do.

You've only ever lived in a little goldfish bowl and the only thing you have to rely on is whatever you've read, whereas there are people out travelling the world with very little formal education that know more about life than you ever will.
You boomers crack me up.

In spite of the fact that you know virtually nothing about me, you display your ignorant arrogance finished with an attempted insult. You never disappoint.

[JackyJoll]

Not even a big goldfish bowl!

[irie]

Back to Ukraine, seems that the nuclear plant at Zaporizhzhia may have been occupied by Russian forces. If that's the case and there's a nuclear accident then the forecast seems to be for a Northerly wind. Which will blow radiation across Crimea, the Black Sea, and into Turkey. Don't imagine Erdogan and Turkey, a member of NATO, will be happy with that!

[JackyJoll]

Back to Ukraine, seems that the nuclear plant at Zaporizhzhia may have been occupied by Russian forces. If that's the case and there's a nuclear accident then the forecast seems to be for a Northerly wind. Which will blow radiation across Crimea, the Black Sea, and into Turkey. Don't imagine Erdogan and Turkey, a member of NATO, will be happy with that!

Power station leaks would be a trivial thing, compared to the thousands of deaths which are occurring, from fighting and bombardment.

[irie]

Depends on how big the "leak" is of course.

[demographic]

I kind of don't get where Putin goes now though.
As far as I can see(pretty sure other people will see other goals as well though) all the goals of his invasion haven't really worked out well.

Stated goals...
Protect Russian lives, that didnt last long did it?
Stop NATO expansion, Finland and Sweden now want to join Nato. Fail.
Unite more with Russia, that's not going at all well now is it?
Now a million or so refugees will have stronger ties with Europe.
After trump attacking NATO he was in a better position than he is now as he's managed to renunite more of NATO against Russia
Show Russian power? Showed their weakness more like.
Oligarchs have been sanctioned and more likely to lose huge amounts of money because of the invasion.

The worrying part of all this is how do the rest of the world give Putin something to help him save face?
He's going to just crush Ukraine now but a protracted conflict won't look good either.

[Supermofo]

Well Putin's done more for getting Germany to rearm than anyone bar Hitler. He's probably lost the London money laundering party. He's made Russia an international outcast and he'll also probably push most of the west to move to renewables asap as well.

Can't see the wins for him.

[irie]

I kind of don't get where Putin goes now though.

Agree with you, Putin has nowhere to go. Collosal own goal. But he won't care because about 70% of the Russian population rely solely on state controlled media for their news, so they'll hear only what Putin wants them to hear.

[Count Steer]

I kind of don't get where Putin goes now though.

Agree with you, Putin has nowhere to go. Collosal own goal. But he won't care because about 70% of the Russian population rely solely on state controlled media for their news, so they'll hear only what Putin wants them to hear.

He may also have given his Chinese chums food for thought about the relationship. Their oil imports will be more expensive, (unless he sells it to them on the cheap because he can't sell elsewhere), and there'll be less money in the west to buy Chinese products. Be interesting to see how they react. They do tend to take the long view so may be thinking ahead to what happens when he's gone.
If NATO gets beefed up they may soft pedal on Taiwan for a while too. Hard to see much upside for them from his machinations.

One thing I do expect is there'll be some more dodgy foreign money and social media manipulation behind Trump's next presidential campaign (either to get him back in or to get his preferred candidate in). Biden appears to have had a popularity boost from recent events.

[Yorick]

Just found this about a wonderful British here Walter Raleigh

Between 1579 and 1583, Raleigh took part in the suppression of the Desmond Rebellions. He was present at the siege of Smerwick, where he led the party that beheaded some 600 Spanish and Italian soldiers.

[Docca]

[Screwdriver]

I kind of don't get where Putin goes now though.
As far as I can see(pretty sure other people will see other goals as well though) all the goals of his invasion haven't really worked out well.

Stated goals...
Protect Russian lives, that didnt last long did it?
Stop NATO expansion, Finland and Sweden now want to join Nato. Fail.
Unite more with Russia, that's not going at all well now is it?
Now a million or so refugees will have stronger ties with Europe.
After trump attacking NATO he was in a better position than he is now as he's managed to renunite more of NATO against Russia
Show Russian power? Showed their weakness more like.
Oligarchs have been sanctioned and more likely to lose huge amounts of money because of the invasion.

The worrying part of all this is how do the rest of the world give Putin something to help him save face?
He's going to just crush Ukraine now but a protracted conflict won't look good either.

Putin is clearly confident in his powerbase and is more strongly aligned with China and I suggest, the CCP model for totalitarian control. Russia is also a lot more self sufficient and it's no accident he is quite keen to acquire "the bread basket of Europe".

He is already threatening Finland which the USSR nearly nabbed only a lifetime ago. He is also a lot less bothered about "the rules of war" up to and including the use of nuclear weapons. Again, no accident one of the first targets was Chernobyl and the cluster of ancient nuclear power stations. Apparently just footfall and tanks/vehicles stirring up the dust is already "a concern"...

Suppose it depends where you get your lies from. Here's a report on what he actually said: Mr Trump described NATO as "obsolete" shortly before taking office and threatened to withdraw the US from the transatlantic alliance if more countries didn't meet the minimum spending requirements of 2% of GDP.

I wonder if the oligarchs will be that fussed about losing a few toys. A $100 million super yacht is little more than a car in the garage to a billionaire. While the west is playing with fiat currency, Russia have real riches, oil, gas, agriculture and a strong ally in China. Oh and oil/gas prices are going through the roof.

The west is weak. We've allowed ourselves to become soft letting corporate greed infiltrate our democratic process and a media system that makes Russian state propaganda look like an open book. Worse still, the world stood by and watched as the worlds former superpower ran a rigged election and installed a weak old man as their puppet president. An old man who made millions out of Ukranian oil lets not forget. I remember being asked "why should we care what happens in the USA" well, now you know.

[Yambo]

I kind of don't get where Putin goes now though.
As far as I can see(pretty sure other people will see other goals as well though) all the goals of his invasion haven't really worked out well.

Putin's not going anywhere until he's taken and that is unlikely.

Putin has said categorically that his invasion, or whatever he calls it is going exactly to plan. Strikes me then, that it was a pretty shit plan, carried out by a pretty shit military. However, he may be right seeing as he seems to be the only fucker that knows the plan.

He wouldn't lie, would he?

[Screwdriver]

I'm going to take a flying guess here and that is he wants to grab Kyiv in one piece without smashing it to bits. 1. so that he can have a media event without the place looking like a warzone and 2. perhaps to encourage Ukrainian forces to gather in one ("safe") spot. Like they'd be so dumb.

Extraordinary to think that until the day of the invasion, the troops really thought they were merely playing out an exercise. Now while it was as obvious as the nose on your face that Putin was indeed planning an invasion, that also raises a couple of points of interest. 1. The Russian soldiers must be fantastically stupid and/or brainwashed and 2. it makes me wonder if the "delay" is in part due to some reluctance to suddenly fall upon their countrymen when the penny dropped.

[Ant]

Are Russian citizens oppressed and brain washed by Putin?

Will sanctions which tar all with the same brush simply cause animosity from the regular Russian towards the West? Is there a hidden Russian Mafia in some Western countries feeling mounting pressure on them?