MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

MTB, Road, Cyclocross, Running, walking, Rowing, Weights / Cardio, Diet, training plans
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5455 times
Been thanked: 13103 times

MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by weeksy »

Yesterday i was chatting with my LBS guy, he was telling me about asymmetric wheels...

Wow... mind blown.

Basically if you're running a 148*12 boost, you end up having 1 side of the wheel over tensioned, 1 side under tensioned, this is to allow it to sit in the middle rather than being offset.

So you now get asymmetric wheels, which have 1 sidewall at a different angle to the other and the spokes offset. This means you get even tension on the spokes to help with stiffness

https://bikerumor.com/aasq-76-wheel-tec ... -speak-up/

Image
User avatar
Pirahna
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:31 pm
Has thanked: 1817 times
Been thanked: 1167 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by Pirahna »

Rear wheels are sort of mostly like this, ish. If you build wheels you'll get a greater understanding of what's going on but, on a non disc hub running gears then there is a fair amount of dish, the spoke on the drive side look almost vertical compared to the non drive side. Add a disc into the mix and the dish is a lot less, it's barely noticable, the spoke lenghts are maybe a couple of mm different at best. This will apply to 135mm and 142mm hubs. A 148mm spaced hub adds 3mm each side, so the dish on the wheel will be no different to 135/142mm hubs.

Take a look at the Hope hubs offsets and you'll get some idea of what's going on. Take a look at the RS4 road hubs as well. Pay attention to the different offsets between front and rear, your 110mm boost front probably has more dish than your 148mm rear. If you're really bored plug the numbers into a spoke calculator, the bigger the difference in spoke lengths between sides, the bigger the wheel dish. The last wheels I built were DT Swiss XM 421 rims on Hope Pro 4 hubs. The rear used 291mm spokes on the drive side, 292mm on the non drive side. As I said earlier, the offset on the 148mm is an extra 3mm each side.

Armed with new information you will now be able to make an informed decision on how much marketing bullshit the bloke in the bike shop fed you.

https://www.hopetech.com/_repository/1/ ... ANDPCD.pdf
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5455 times
Been thanked: 13103 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by weeksy »

He wasn't selling me anything. We were just chatting as he was sorting a wheel for me
millemille
Posts: 850
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:40 am
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 1007 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by millemille »

weeksy wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:04 am
Basically if you're running a 148*12 boost, you end up having 1 side of the wheel over tensioned, 1 side under tensioned, this is to allow it to sit in the middle rather than being offset.
Horseshit.

The spokes are different length, that's how the lateral offset is achieved. Nothing to do with tension.
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5455 times
Been thanked: 13103 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by weeksy »

millemille wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:24 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:04 am
Basically if you're running a 148*12 boost, you end up having 1 side of the wheel over tensioned, 1 side under tensioned, this is to allow it to sit in the middle rather than being offset.
Horseshit.

The spokes are different length, that's how the lateral offset is achieved. Nothing to do with tension.
LOL no need for the aggression boy. :)

I said we were talking, not that i got it all.

the wheel he had had the spokes offset in the rim to one side, which absolutely baffled me... I've never seen a spoke that's not centered.
User avatar
weeksy
Site Admin
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
Has thanked: 5455 times
Been thanked: 13103 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by weeksy »

Image
User avatar
Pirahna
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:31 pm
Has thanked: 1817 times
Been thanked: 1167 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by Pirahna »

millemille wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:24 am
The spokes are different length, that's how the lateral offset is achieved. Nothing to do with tension.
The different offset produces different spoke tensions. On modern disc hubs the difference is measurable but negligible. On something like a 130mm road hub the drive side is as tight as a drum, the non drive side is fairly slack in comparison. It's only on hubs that have the same offset on both sides that spoke tension is equal. Example of this would be a 100mm road hub or a rear track hub.
porter_jamie
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:41 am
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by porter_jamie »

my old 26" rims on the heckler have the spoke beds offset, particularly on a 135 hub the cassette side spokes are almost vertical so anything you can do to put some angle on the drive side spoke will help. hence dh bikes were 150, and boost etc. a different length spoke will necessarily have a different 'spring rate' or tensional stiffness.
Taff
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:15 am
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 885 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by Taff »

I've just had a closer look at the wheels on my Whyte and the spokes are offset on the rim. I never noticed before.
The rest is offset towards the disk and the front of offset away from the disk.

Image

Image
User avatar
Mr Moofo
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:41 pm
Location: Brightonish
Has thanked: 1829 times
Been thanked: 1469 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by Mr Moofo »

TBH, my are normal so filthy it is hard to tell ...
User avatar
MingtheMerciless
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 am
Location: Scarfolk on Sea
Has thanked: 2947 times
Been thanked: 1884 times

Re: MTB wheels, things you didn't know.

Post by MingtheMerciless »

Yeah my wheels have normally got so much sealant over them that I'd be hard pressed to tell how they were built.
"Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
"My dear Doctor, they're all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."