Triumph TE-1

[KungFooBob]

Doesn't look as awful as I was expecting. It's very 'Speed Triple'.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/n ... ting-ready











Belt drive?

On a high torque 173bhp bike?

...and them sprocket studs look a bit long.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah that raised my eyebrows too.

It's a much more benign engine though, lovely and smooth. Might be a control thing, keeping everything 'tighter' 'cause E-drives really highlight drivetrain lash. Could also be noise, without the engine you might also experience how rough a chain actually sounds

Or it could be something else

EDIT: Could also be the final drive ratio, come to think of it. The motor might well be driving straight out on to the front sprocket with nothing in between, so the final drive ratio is going to be quite high (or is that quite low? Depends how you look at it) so it might have a dinky little front sprocket which is too tight for a chain. The other thing you could so is have a massive rear sprocket, which just looks odd. The motor is gonna run at something like 0-15,000rpm with one gear.

[Count Steer]

If this trend of mounting the headlight lower and lower continues they'll be able to mount it on the mudguard.

Otherwise it looks rather spiffing.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Ah...so here's a thing.

Gates Carbon Drive are explicitly stated as being responsible for some of this (link). This whole thing is part funded by the UK government (which is very common for this sorta thing BTW) so GCD must be on board as some sort of "high efficiency drivetrain" partner with Triumph. I've never heard of GCD before, but looking at their website they claim to make belts which are stronger, lighter and more efficient that chains.

I can sorta believe it, carbon fibres are incredibly strong in tension - 3 or 4 times that of even a super whazzy steel - so I can well believe it's possible to make a carbon reinforced belt which is superior to a chain.

[Tarmacsurfer]

I think it looks great. But I'm biased as I've been working on it for the last 2 years.

[KungFooBob]

My only experience of belts is on Buell's, where they don't last more than five minutes, even with a HD engine's modest power. They aint carbon fibre tho'.

[Tarmacsurfer]

Ah...so here's a thing.

Gates Carbon Drive are explicitly stated as being responsible for some of this (link). This whole thing is part funded by the UK government (which is very common for this sorta thing BTW) so GCD must be on board as some sort of "high efficiency drivetrain" partner with Triumph. I've never heard of GCD before, but looking at their website they claim to make belts which are stronger, lighter and more efficient that chains.

I can sorta believe it, carbon fibres are incredibly strong in tension - 3 or 4 times that of even a super whazzy steel - so I can well believe it's possible to make a carbon reinforced belt which is superior to a chain.

Yes all them things are advantageous for a carbon belt. Mainly NVH though. As you say, chains are bloody noisy when you're not listening to an engine.

[G.P]

never really understood why bellt drives have been avoided by many manufacturers. rode an f800 bmw with a belt and is was very smooth, i would imagine Harley cheapo old tech belts used on a motor which is all torque / no torque would not last too long.

[weeksy]

I think it looks great. But I'm biased as I've been working on it for the last 2 years.

Tell us more, what you been up to @Tarmacsurfer ?

[MingtheMerciless]

I assume it’s the same Gates but they do a lot of cycling stuff. The belts are pretty tough, I’ve only heard of a few failures and one of those was a flint getting into the pulley belt interface and slicing it and the other was someone not refitting the belt correctly after it “dropped” causing it to snap.

[Tarmacsurfer]

I think it looks great. But I'm biased as I've been working on it for the last 2 years.

Tell us more, what you been up to @Tarmacsurfer ?

Control software for the vehicle controller.
As always it always sounds more exciting than it is but I can assure you it's not CGI and has run on the track!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Control guys are the hardcore nerds....even I think that.

Is that in MK then? Or with Triumph. Or can you not say.

[Skub]

In the coming EV apocalypse,will there be much scope for engine tuning,or will that shtick be a thing of the past?

[Mr. Dazzle]

In the coming EV apocalypse,will there be much scope for engine tuning,or will that shtick be a thing of the past?

Certainly in our motors (not this bike, but same sort of idea) there's very little you could do at home. The level of complexity and integration if the equal of anything I've seen in motorsport or aerospace.

For the lower spec stuff maybe, but for this Triumph I wouldn't bet on it.

Of course, one wonders how much performance you actually need. A 175bhp electric bike is going to fucking rapid!

[KungFooBob]

Could you change the power output vs range balance. Make it more fasterer at the expense of range?

Range is going to be the big selling point of EV's for most people, but there's going to be some people that would happily drop a few miles for a few extra BHP... especially if they start fitting chargers to pit boxes at trackdays.

[Skub]

In the coming EV apocalypse,will there be much scope for engine tuning,or will that shtick be a thing of the past?

Certainly in our motors (not this bike, but same sort of idea) there's very little you could do at home. The level of complexity and integration if the equal of anything I've seen in motorsport or aerospace.

For the lower spec stuff maybe, but for this Triumph I wouldn't bet on it.

Of course, one wonders how much performance you actually need. A 175bhp electric bike is going to fucking rapid!

There'll always be some loon who needs to bypass the electronics to get the full fat,especially for bragging rights.

Tradition innit.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Doesn't really work that way.

Unlike a piston engine, electric motors don't lose a huge amount when running at lower performance. They lose a bit but you're talking like 95% efficient dropping down to 90% sorta scale...compare that to a piston engine which might be 35% efficient at its best point but only 10% at its worst.

So really there's not a huge downside to fitting a high performance motor. Not like a piston engine at least..
If you fit a 5 litre V8 you're still getting crappy 5 litre V8 efficiency when tootling along at 30mph. A 500bhp electric motor on the other hand can happily run at 50bhp with only a small drop in efficiency.

On the flip side, you can also MASSiVELY overrate an electric motor for a little bit. Motors typically have a continuous rating, then maybe 5 min, 1min, 30s etc ratings...sometimes down as low as 1s. The difference between them might be a factor of 3. So you can fit a 100bhp for spritely performance but actually run it at 300bhp for an instant and maybe 200bhp for a minute.

Don't forget that for these BLDC motors the control software and the motor are insperable. You can't just turn it up a bit...not without understanding how the controller works. You might just as easily make it unrideable

[KungFooBob]

So you can fit a 100bhp for spritely performance but actually run it at 300bhp for an instant and maybe 200bhp for a minute.

Sparky Nitrous!

[Skub]

You might just as easily make it unrideable

That's the gist of my query.

In biking's history there have been many awesome custom builds which have so much power they are unrideable,but for some twisted souls,still desireable and always memorable.

Will it be possible for software engineers to make that happen?

[Tarmacsurfer]

Control guys are the hardcore nerds....even I think that.

Is that in MK then? Or with Triumph. Or can you not say.

Hahaha yeah can't argue.