Energy bills

[Dodgy69]

But do they negatively affect the planet.

If it all boils down to consumer demand thats driving economic growth around the world, then there really is nothing we can realistically do, enjoy, as long as we can.

[weeksy]

But do they negatively affect the planet.

You mean apart from the natural resources dug out of the ground? The rubber trees? The coal to manufacture the alloys, engines, etc? Or the petrol they unnecessarily use in persuit of leisure?

[Yorick]

Personally I think it should be illegal to profit from water and sewerage full stop. That basically means making them state run in reality.

Energy is tougher, you use it for both essential and non essential things so it's hard to say "no profit from energy". Profiting from a pensioner heating their flat? Dubious. Profiting from someone heating their indoor swimming pool or fuelling their 3rd car V8 SUV - can't say I have a problem with that. How would you tell them apart?

Tiered pricing? For a given size property, first x kw @ £y, next lot @ £y*2 etc? Same with metered water? Easy enough to do technically and encourages efficiency/frugality maybe.

We have a fixed charge on our leccy bill depending on size of your home.

[Count Steer]

I agree though that it'd be lovely for some things to be non profit or even free, but we've seen how that goes with quality of service, funding and actually delivering the product. It never goes well

The issue is, who would setup a company to research medicine if they were not allowed to make a profit? Where's the incentive for them? Apart possibly from saving the world and going down in history.

A company like AstraZeneca? Who would set up a company like that?

Err...the national chemical company, ICI perhaps. (Zeneca was spun off from ICI. Funnily enough they're the ones who had a 'not for profit' model for Covid vaccine. Which may, or may not, be why there was an apparent concerted effort by some countries/their pharma interests to trash the AZ vaccine. Can't have anyone undermining the profit/tax opportunities like that!).

[Pirahna]

Just to add a bit of reality to the conversation, my only fuel cost is diesel. I've been parked on the edge of the Sierra Nevada in Spain for the last week. Thinking I might head off south east this week, it's a bit warmer at night.

[Mr. Dazzle]

On the one hand I agree with the "where's the incentive" thing.

On the other, people read Wikipedia on Linux PCs don't they?

[Skub]

I just bought 900 litres of heating oil. £525.

Spanked.

[Count Steer]

The Chancellor's response to rising domestic energy costs? Klarna it! £200 in easy installments. Very 2022.

[Supermofo]

The Chancellor's response to rising domestic energy costs? Klarna it! £200 in easy installments. Very 2022.

Yeah loving the loan I don't want. Don't get me wrong I don't want to pay extra, but if I'm going to then get on with it. Pretending they are giving us £200 sucks donkey balls.

[JamJar]

The Chancellor's response to rising domestic energy costs? Klarna it! £200 in easy installments. Very 2022.

Yeah loving the loan I don't want. Don't get me wrong I don't want to pay extra, but if I'm going to then get on with it. Pretending they are giving us £200 sucks donkey balls.

It's not a loan, it's a rebate you have to pay back

[Count Steer]

I think the best option was to hedge by buying Shell and BP shares. As energy prices go up, share price and dividends go up. (Shell are increasing dividends and pumping billions into share buy back). Needs a few shares to cover the increase though.

[Cousin Jack]

Do you not think it a little ironic that you've chosen one of the few fields where the government artificially controls prices as your example?

It's fair to raise/question/discuss whether pay packages at board level are grossly inflated though. Particularly of what were nationalised utilities. Some pretty good people ran some of them perfectly well on quite modest salaries. Should so much profit be siphoned off by the boards, are the people really good enough to justify it, is there real competition for the jobs to get the best or is it a closed shop etc etc etc?

One example: water. Would some of the money be better spent fixing leaks and reducing sewage in rivers? Would lower paid execs do worse?

IMO there should be a formula that limits maximum CEO pay, related to how many people are employed by the company, and how much the lowest paid employee earns.

So a simple example could be 20 X Lowest paid full-time employee + £100 per employee.

Not suggesting that particular formula is right, just an example of how it could work.

[Count Steer]

Do you not think it a little ironic that you've chosen one of the few fields where the government artificially controls prices as your example?

It's fair to raise/question/discuss whether pay packages at board level are grossly inflated though. Particularly of what were nationalised utilities. Some pretty good people ran some of them perfectly well on quite modest salaries. Should so much profit be siphoned off by the boards, are the people really good enough to justify it, is there real competition for the jobs to get the best or is it a closed shop etc etc etc?

One example: water. Would some of the money be better spent fixing leaks and reducing sewage in rivers? Would lower paid execs do worse?

IMO there should be a formula that limits maximum CEO pay, related to how many people are employed by the company, and how much the lowest paid employee earns.

So a simple example could be 20 X Lowest paid full-time employee + £100 per employee.

Not suggesting that particular formula is right, just an example of how it could work.

It's an interesting idea although there should be an incentive too to run the company well ('well' being several measures not just profits/dividends).

I'd quite like to see some sort of ratio between what people were paid when they ran things like universities, education trusts, local authorities etc before they went all 'free market'. The jobs aren't that much different from what they used to be - although I suppose universities are just another business now.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think Brewdog have a policy whereby the highest and lowest paid employees can be separated by no more than a factor of ten.

But then again, if reports are to believed their CEO is also a toxic bully with a highly questionable attitude towards women.

EDIT: This is from 2019 so I don't know if it's still valid, but...

https://d1fnkk8n0t8a0e.cloudfront.net/d ... +A5+AW.pdf

The BrewDog salary cap means that no-one can join our business for a salary which is more than 7x what our lowest salary is (currently £18,700) Furthermore, this is capped at a maximum of 14x, increasing by one for each year of service

No word on whether this applies to the pre-existing CEO. Probably not

[Cousin Jack]

I have no idea if x20, or x2000 is the 'right' answer, it was just a figure to illustrate the way it could work.

I don't doubt that top CEOs are worth a lot of money, but I find it very suspect that, at the bottom of the chain, a promotion gets you perhaps 20-50% increase in pay, at the top it can be several 00%.

And no one is worth £10m pa.

[JamJar]

IMO there should be a formula that limits maximum CEO pay, related to how many people are employed by the company, and how much the lowest paid employee earns.

So a simple example could be 20 X Lowest paid full-time employee + £100 per employee.

Not suggesting that particular formula is right, just an example of how it could work.

In all companies? I doubt the CEO of Serco will turn up to work for 20x what the cleaner in his office gets - and why should he when about £4bn sits on his shoulders.

Utilities companies are a bit different IMO, but they were failing and needed to attract talent. If you back to clowns running them then you'll have no energy and expensive energy is better than no energy.

My usual answer though, is that if you're unhappy about their pay and you think you're worth the same, then go out and get it.

Cousin Jack's proposal would see the CEO of Serco earn over £5.3 million. That's assuming the lowest paid earns minimum wage of £9.50 an hour and is full time. Seems like more than enough to me.

[Count Steer]

I have no idea if x20, or x2000 is the 'right' answer, it was just a figure to illustrate the way it could work.

I don't doubt that top CEOs are worth a lot of money, but I find it very suspect that, at the bottom of the chain, a promotion gets you perhaps 20-50% increase in pay, at the top it can be several 00%.

And no one is worth £10m pa.

CEOs are just one aspect though. There's a very nice racket goes on in the appointment of non-Execs. If you look at some of them you really do go That's not just large companies either. If you can get on the gravy train it's really very nice to get a slug of cash for a few meetings a year from a handful of companies/charities but you have to have an inside track to get started. Easier at the moment if, for example, you can help change the 'all old, white, male' board balance and sometimes people are taken on for their particular area of experience or their political contacts but quite often it's just money down the drain.

[Mussels]

I think Brewdog have a policy whereby the highest and lowest paid employees can be separated by no more than a factor of ten.

But then again, if reports are to believed their CEO is also a toxic bully with a highly questionable attitude towards women.

EDIT: This is from 2019 so I don't know if it's still valid, but...

https://d1fnkk8n0t8a0e.cloudfront.net/d ... +A5+AW.pdf

The BrewDog salary cap means that no-one can join our business for a salary which is more than 7x what our lowest salary is (currently £18,700) Furthermore, this is capped at a maximum of 14x, increasing by one for each year of service

No word on whether this applies to the pre-existing CEO. Probably not

That might be little more than a virtue signalling tax dodge seeing as they will get a lot extra from the dividends.

[Kneerly Down]

IMO there should be a formula that limits maximum CEO pay, related to how many people are employed by the company, and how much the lowest paid employee earns.

Would that be globally?
I imagine you'd need a pretty high multiple just to get UK minimum wage if, for example, you employ people in Bangladesh...or infinite multiple if you 'employ' Uighurs in Xinjiang.

It'd certainly be a boon to the contracting industry for cleaners, security guards and the like, if they weren't all contracted out already.

[Hoonercat]

Just had a message from a friend back in the UK who's fixed rate with OVO is coming to an end soon.

Electricity: was 16.5p per kWh (day), 11p per kWh (night). New cost 31.3p per kWh both day and night. Standing charge goes from 21.9p to 41.6p per day.
Gas: was 2.72p per kWh, new cost 8.87p per kWh. Standing charge goes from 24.6p to 26.8p per day.

Estimated costs gone from £1,700 to £4,400 per year based on same usage