Boris - how much longer will he suvive?

[Mussels]

He didn't say that, he said that whilst he was the DPP Starmer failed to prosecute Saville - that is a fact.

There should be an investigation then, but there won't be, because there is no evidence.

So, back to Boris then - where there is some evidence ...

There was evidence and an investigation, the CPS was found to have failed the victims when SKS was in charge.

[DefTrap]

It’s fact.
No need for an investigation, it’s simply fact.

Starmer was in charge but not directly involved.
Boris was in charge and directly involved.

Funny how leaving out a simple fact changes the context.

But it's just more deflection.

[irie]

Whilst Kier Starmer was the DPP several people made complaints of historic abuse against Saville.
Statements were taken and the CPS was consulted to see if a prosecution could be undertaken - the answer from the CPS was no, Saville walked.

Now apparently Starmer didn't personally handle the case, but he was the Director of Public Prosecutions, so if the boss of that department can't be held accountable for the results of that department, then what is he responsible for?

And if we're going down that route then let's shut up about the party, Boris didn't organise it, he was just the boss at the time.

A Lynton Crosby-esque [sic] 'dead cat' manoeuvre.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy

Unsurprising now that the aforesaid Lynton Crosby has just started working for Johnson again.

[Asian Boss]

It’s fact.
No need for an investigation, it’s simply fact.

Starmer was in charge but not directly involved.
Boris was in charge and directly involved.

Funny how leaving out a simple fact changes the context.

But it's just more deflection.

Exactly.

Those who support or supported him will clutch at any straw.

He was always and was always going to be pretty destructive to the UK

[demographic]

Those who support or supported him will clutch at any straw.

He was always and was always going to be pretty destructive to the UK

That^.

A populist PM who came to power after spouting some extremely nebulous policies.
Looking back its pretty sad they believed it and are now trying to cover up for it by re-writing the past as if they always knew he was a wrong un.
Its almost as if some even believe their own revisions and are trying to convince the people around them that they werent really that daft afterall.

Its still shite though.

[DefTrap]

That's all.

Nope, it isn't though. We all know that the top dog bears ultimate responsibility. Also that the degree of culpability and level of punishment tends to be directly proportionate to the degree of involvement.

BJ was directly involved, set the rules, flouted them, claimed he hadn't. KS wasn't directly involved, there's nothing to answer but I was in charge.

But again, more deflection, which is exactly what BJ wants. I'm slightly disappointed that you're being duped, especially when it's such a grimy little falsification.

[DefTrap]

Pretty sure I've said numerous times I think Labour are unelectable but you particularly are pretty inventive when it comes to facts.

I don't have to be pro-Starmer to "be against" Boris, you've said as much yourself, no matter how much you want it to be. But I do object to him being smeared by BJ in The House when there is zilch linking Starmer and Savile except the desperate Tory desire to make it so. Partisan you say?

Because it's deflection of a nasty kind and this shit sticks. Let's hope someone under your wing at work isn't pedoing around behind your back because apparently that makes you as guilty as hell.

[slowsider]

Duped

How terrible of me to hold him to account, the millionaire barrister, Director of Public Prosecutions, a man who was knighted for services to the law. How dare I hold him responsible for mistakes made whilst he was paid hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax payers money.

Not to mention that he's more Tory than half of the Tories in parliament today.

You're so partisan
I can admit Boris has gone off the rails without the slightest wrinkle of my forehead, but you'd suck Starmer and Saville off together as long as they wore the right colour rosette

It's almost as if Starmer actively encouraged Saville in your book. If Boris has gone off the rails in the top job he should no longer be there, especially given that the mendacity is a core personality trait of his. Starmer's no longer DPP. Should all your previous errors dog your career now?

[Count Steer]

Pretty sure I've said numerous times I think Labour are unelectable but you particularly are pretty inventive when it comes to facts.

Also, as the thread is about Johnson surviving, I don't think Starmer will be on the ballot sheet to replace him. As ever though, Johnson comes up with something ridiculous that deflects the conversation and it works again thanks to his willing minions.

Keith Vaz <--- obligatory non sequitur.

[Yambo]

Should all your previous errors dog your career now?

It's happening to a lot of people these days so I guess the answer is yes, they should.

That's not my personal opinion by the way.

[DefTrap]

Starmer has actually apologised for the failure during his tenure, but you're still sticking up for him

Still you're at it. He's apologised for it happening on his watch. As you would have to when your 2-i-c "Pedalo" Phil can't keep his hands to himself. But you're happy with everyone winking and saying "That Iccy failed to prevent Phil doing his business in plain sight".? We all knew he was at it after all. There's probably some collusion going on.

You're OK with me making this all about you now and not Starmer by the way?

[Noggin]

Boris had a few drinks at a very boring after work garden party, where no one was hurt, it seems to pale into insignificance when measured against some things people have been responsible for without any kind of impediment to their progress, I think that was his point, made very badly.

He should go because he's a bad manager, not because he had a Pimms and upset the socialists.

It may have been a boring after work garden party. HOWEVER - it happened hours (or the next day?) from the general public being told they weren't allowed to socialise.

This not being allowed to socialise also included -

Not being able to visit dying relatives/close friends
Not being able to hug any of the 10 people at a funeral
Husbands not being able to be at their wife's side after childbirth
Mothers/family not being able to go to their daughter after a difficult childbirth or loss of a child

etc etc etc


This really has very little to do with what the opposition or other MPs have done.

This is about the PRIME MINISTER telling the general public that, for the good of everyone THAT is what they had to do -

and then he behaves, along with various colleagues, as if he and they are above the regulations/rules.


That is the bit that pisses people off. Along with the photo of the Queen sat alone at Prince Philip's funeral - whilst cropped for sure, that will have hit hard as many many people will have had to bury family members without the support of their family as a whole. Without being able to get together to celebrate a life and remember.


To lay down lockdown rules for the country to follow and then behave like you are above those rules is stupid. To do it as often as it seems they did shows a distinct lack of respect for the general public or care of anyone other than themselves.


So yes, Boris Johnson should go. As should those at the parties and those that organised them. They knowingly broke the lockdown rules that THEY put in place with complete disregard for the general public


But that won't happen. Because there are now too many other things being brought up, mud slinging and diversionary tactics. Hey ho.

[Noggin]

This is about the PRIME MINISTER telling the general public that, for the good of everyone THAT is what they had to do -

Yes, I understand, life isn't fair, but that is what they had to do because the general public are idiots, you have to cater to the lowest common denominator. He couldn't say that reasonably intelligent people can go about their business, but stupid people can't because they'll do stupid things.

This is really unpalatable if you don't like being one of the unwashed, but (and I've said it before) the people at the top table making the rules do not have to necessarily follow all the rules, they should be seen to just so the masses don't cry about the inequities of life, but it's probably not necessary - and it certainly wasn't necessary in this instance.

I understand this so I'm not arsed about it - whereas I am arsed about the bad management of the UK PLC in the last six months because I'd like to live there at some point in the future.

I get that. But they have now been caught out. So look even more stupid.

I agree on the UK PLC bit - although I have less than zero inclination to ever live there again - but for me, it's all tied up together. The more crap that comes out about how badly they didn't follow the rules for the lowest common denominator, the more damage is done to UK PLC - the perception from abroad isn't just on business and management. It's on behaviour too

[weeksy]

whereas I am arsed about the bad management of the UK PLC in the last six months because I'd like to live there at some point in the future.

You forget they monitor all your posts... you're not getting back in fella.

[DefTrap]

Yeah probably KS didn't need to bother checking on the paedos either.

I think most of us live by "I'll abide by as little of the law as I can get away with". Speeding, tax avoidance, carrying on about your business under moderate drunkeness are some of the (currently) more socially acceptable ones. You're not that bad a boy but if you get caught out you hold your hands up.

You can't say I'm too clever and important to abide by these low level inconveniences if you're too much of a thicket to avoid getting caught red-handed.

[Yorick]

I understand this so I'm not arsed about it - whereas I am arsed about the bad management of the UK PLC in the last six months because I'd like to live there at some point in the future.

WTF ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I understand this so I'm not arsed about it - whereas I am arsed about the bad management of the UK PLC in the last six months because I'd like to live there at some point in the future.

WTF ?

Well surely you didn't think Boris was renovating his flat for his own benefit? Of course not, he's getting it ready for when Iccy moves in.

It's why I agree with him so much. Don't want to make it onto his list of "first against the wall when I'm king"

[Phoenix]

Just in. From the pro Tory Spectator:

“Munira Mirza, the Downing Street head of policy, has resigned over Boris Johnson’s Jimmy Savile attack on Keir Starmer. Mirza, who has worked with Johnson for 14 years and who he named as one of the five women who have most inspired him, quit this afternoon.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mirza writes:

‘I believe it was wrong for you to imply this week that Keir Starmer was personally responsible for allowing Jimmy Savile to escape justice. There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion. This was not the usual cut and thrust of politics; it was an inappropriate and partisan reference to a horrendous case of child sex abuse. You tried to clarify your position today but, despite my urging, you did not apologise for the misleading impression you gave.’

Mirza is one of the people in Downing Street who was most loyal to the Prime Minister personally. She had worked with him since his London Mayor days and had stayed out of the various factional fights that have raged in Downing Street these past few years. Her departure is devastating for Johnson and an illustration of what a self-inflicted blow his ill-thought out attempt to link Starmer to Savile was.

Mirza found the decision extremely difficult. She has long been one of Johnson’s most valued allies and one of the most creative thinkers in his circle. She praises him as ‘a man of extraordinary abilities with a unique talent for connecting with people.’ She goes on:

Johnson will feel Mirza’s departure

‘You are a better man than many of your detractors will ever understand which is why it is so desperately sad that you let yourself down by making a scurrilous accusation against the Leader of the Opposition.’

Johnson will feel Mirza’s departure. She is someone who has been vital to his remarkable political journey from City Hall to Vote Leave to Downing Street. That she has quit over the Savile line should make Johnson realise what a terrible mistake it was and how it has further weakened his position.

Here is Mirza’s letter of resignation to the PM:

Dear Prime Minister,

It is with great regret that I am writing to resign as your Head of Policy.

You are aware of the reason for my decision: I believe it was wrong for you to imply this week that Keir Starmer was personally responsible for allowing Jimmy Savile to escape justice. There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion. This was not the normal cut-and-thrust of politics; it was an inappropriate and partisan reference to a horrendous case of child sex abuse. You tried to clarify your position today but, despite my urging, you did not apologise for the misleading impression you gave.

I have served you for fourteen years and it has been a privilege to do so. You have achieved many important things both as Prime Minister and, before that, as Mayor of London. You are a man of extraordinary abilities with a unique talent for connecting with people.

You are a better man than many of your detractors will ever understand which is why it is desperately sad that you let yourself down by making a scurrilous accusation against the Leader of the Opposition.

Even now, I hope you find it in yourself to apologise for a grave error of judgement made under huge pressure. I appreciate that our political culture is not forgiving when people say sorry, but regardless, it is the right thing to do. It is not too late for you but, I’m sorry to say, it is too late for me.”

And now over to the fat, mendacious, immoral, bloviating bastard via the constantly smug Guardian

“Johnson admits Starmer not personally involved in Savile prosecution decisions - three days after he implied otherwise

Boris Johnson has finally admitted that Keir Starmer was not personally responsible for any decisions taken not to prosecute the paedophile, sexual predator and TV personality Jimmy Savile.

On Monday, in response to a withering speech from Starmer telling him that he was not fit to be PM, Johnson retaliated by saying that Starmer “spent most of his time [as DPP] prosecuting journalists and failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile”.

This was widely seen as a smear, because Johnson was implying that Starmer was to blame for the failure to prosecute Savile when he wasn’t, and because it was redolent of an online conspiracy theory saying Starmer protected Savile from prosecution. Some of the Tory MPs calling for Johnson’s resignation this week have cited this comment as an example of why is is not a suitable person to be PM.

In an interview today Johnson said:

I want to be very clear about this because a lot of people have got very hot under the collar, and I understand why.

Let’s be absolutely clear, I’m talking not about the leader of the opposition’s personal record when he was DPP and I totally understand that he had nothing to do personally with those decisions.

I was making a point about his responsibility for the organisation as a whole. And I think people can see that. And I really do want to clarify that because it is important.

This is similar to the argument advanced by James Cleverly, the Foreign Office minister, who said that Johnson was trying to compare Starmer’s situation at the CPS over Savile with Johnson’s position in relation to partygate.

But it has taken Johnson a while to issue this clarification. On Tuesday he told the Sun that what he said about Starmer was “fairly accurate”, in a comment interpreted by the paper as Johnson doubling down on his original claim.

And in the Commons yesterday, when Starmer accused him of parroting a conspiracy theory favoured by fascists, Johnson just said: “I do not want to make heavy weather of this, but I am informed that in 2013 [Starmer] apologised and took full responsibility for what had happened on his watch, and I think that was the right thing to do.”

Johnson did not say at that point he accepted that Starmer was not personally involved in the Savile decisions.”

This is what happens when you take your smear advice from Lynton Crosby. You just know that when you upset people like Tobias Elwood and other right thinking people that you got it badly wrong.

[Phoenix]

By heck! Talk about fast?!

“Conservative MP Andrew Griffith has been made the head of the Prime Minister’s policy unit, Downing Street said, following the departure of Boris Johnson’s long-term ally Munira Mirza.”

I presume there will be no leaving party for Ms Mirza

Meanwhile...El Pais and other Europeans are not fond of Johnson.

“He is not Churchill’: Spanish media condemns Boris Johnson over lockdown parties.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/h ... ar-AATrjzA

[Phoenix]

Impossible to close the day without giving the last word to that rascal, Rasputin Cummings -

“Moral courage from Munira who has done her best to make progress with a professional team throughout the horror since 11/20. It's also an unmistakeable signal the bunker is collapsing & *this PM is finished*. Flicker of moral courage from Cabinet & Cabinet Office asap please.”

“Pretty soon there will be a mad scramble & ministers will be kicking themselves hitting their heads saying 'WHY didnt i move faster arghhh'. Nows your moment, find a flicker of moral courage & 'push what is falling'”

Got to admire his hutzpah.