What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
- KungFooBob
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
My car has no soul, but the roof comes off so who cares.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Everyone says they want a 'pure' vehicle, a 'real' one - one without any nannying features or fake sound. Then they go out and buy a 911mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:48 pm What a truly sad state of affairs; people driving round in their top-end Porsches etc. trying desperately to look bad and rad, but daren't fit a rorty exhaust in case they get tugged by the cops. So instead they can make believe they're bad boys and have their ego massaged by some clever algorithms and a sound system.
911's sell like hot cakes, you'll wait a year to get a new one. People should put their money where their mouth is!
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Cars don't have souls or character. Fact.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
I reckon something like an AC Cobra has a little soul, but if it aint got a v8 or weigh less than a ton it's gonna be soulless.
- mangocrazy
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
They've probably also got a Harley in their carpeted garage.Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:55 pmEveryone says they want a 'pure' vehicle, a 'real' one - one without any nannying features or fake sound. Then they go out and buy a 911mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:48 pm What a truly sad state of affairs; people driving round in their top-end Porsches etc. trying desperately to look bad and rad, but daren't fit a rorty exhaust in case they get tugged by the cops. So instead they can make believe they're bad boys and have their ego massaged by some clever algorithms and a sound system.
911's sell like hot cakes, you'll wait a year to get a new one. People should put their money where their mouth is!
Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Same thing applies to bikes - it's all built in. You could call it fake, you could just call it a better understanding of what makes a bike feel the way it does.
Add 2.6% more damping, tweak the steering angle, put a bit of a spike in the torque curve etc. etc.
Add 2.6% more damping, tweak the steering angle, put a bit of a spike in the torque curve etc. etc.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Vehicle.mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:03 pm
Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).
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- mangocrazy
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Bugger.Skub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:13 pmVehicle.mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:03 pm
Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).
Fair cop, guv...
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- mangocrazy
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Bollocks. There's no fake sound track on any bike I've ever owned. And optimising damping and head angle are part and parcel of fine-tuning suspension and handling. Nothing 'fake' about that.Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:04 pm Same thing applies to bikes - it's all built in. You could call it fake, you could just call it a better understanding of what makes a bike feel the way it does.
Add 2.6% more damping, tweak the steering angle, put a bit of a spike in the torque curve etc. etc.
And frankly I'd wager that manufacturers are far more exercised about getting the best fuelling they can within the strictures of Euro 5, rather than artificially engineering a spike in the torque curve.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
You think the sound just comes by accident and the exhaust isn't shaped to make it just right? Within the constraints of all the other stuff they have to make it do.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
You're only saying that cause you don't have to maintain it any more
- mangocrazy
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Manufacturers have their hands tied by noise and emission regs. They do the best they can within those limits. Which is why an aftermarket can is often the first thing on punter's to do list. I can clearly remember the pathetic warble that the exhausts on my Falco emitted from new. It was a million miles away from 'just right'. But a pair of Akras and custom headers put that right. Now it is 'just right'.Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:13 pm You think the sound just comes by accident and the exhaust isn't shaped to make it just right?
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
They do, they always have.
My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.
My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Not really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:20 pm They do, they always have.
My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:27 pmNot really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:20 pm They do, they always have.
My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.
Just that the sad act Porsche ain't so differnet to any other vehcile you might buy, 2 wheels or 4
People in glass houses and all that.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
AFAIK lots of the parallel twins you can buy these days are 270. I don't know for sure which ones are, but I'm pretty sure the Honda AT, various KTMs and the 660 prillers are.Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:29 pm TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
You're totally (and doubtless deliberately) missing the point. Porsche et al have artificially confected a pleasing exhaust note in car to try and fool punters that this is what their very expensive (and quite quiet) car sounds like.Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:30 pmmangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:27 pmNot really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:20 pm They do, they always have.
My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.
Just that the sad act Porsche ain't so differnet to any other vehcile you might buy, 2 wheels or 4
People in glass houses and all that.
Motorcycles don't do that. What you hear is the actual exhaust note, in case you weren't aware.
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Re: What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?
Don't forget the worlds most important motorcycle... the MT07.Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:32 pmAFAIK lots of the parallel twins you can buy these days are 270. I don't know for sure which ones are, but I'm pretty sure the Honda AT, various KTMs and the 660 prillers are.Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:29 pm TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.