What creates a vehicle's 'soul' or 'character'?

[KungFooBob]

My car has no soul, but the roof comes off so who cares.

[Mr. Dazzle]

What a truly sad state of affairs; people driving round in their top-end Porsches etc. trying desperately to look bad and rad, but daren't fit a rorty exhaust in case they get tugged by the cops. So instead they can make believe they're bad boys and have their ego massaged by some clever algorithms and a sound system.

Everyone says they want a 'pure' vehicle, a 'real' one - one without any nannying features or fake sound. Then they go out and buy a 911

911's sell like hot cakes, you'll wait a year to get a new one. People should put their money where their mouth is!

[Skub]

Cars don't have souls or character. Fact.

Thread/

[KungFooBob]

Cars don't have souls or character. Fact.

Thread/

I reckon something like an AC Cobra has a little soul, but if it aint got a v8 or weigh less than a ton it's gonna be soulless.

[mangocrazy]

What a truly sad state of affairs; people driving round in their top-end Porsches etc. trying desperately to look bad and rad, but daren't fit a rorty exhaust in case they get tugged by the cops. So instead they can make believe they're bad boys and have their ego massaged by some clever algorithms and a sound system.

Everyone says they want a 'pure' vehicle, a 'real' one - one without any nannying features or fake sound. Then they go out and buy a 911

911's sell like hot cakes, you'll wait a year to get a new one. People should put their money where their mouth is!

They've probably also got a Harley in their carpeted garage.

Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).

[Mr. Dazzle]

Same thing applies to bikes - it's all built in. You could call it fake, you could just call it a better understanding of what makes a bike feel the way it does.

Add 2.6% more damping, tweak the steering angle, put a bit of a spike in the torque curve etc. etc.

[Skub]

Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).

Vehicle.

[mangocrazy]

Anyway - how did this thread get onto cars? We're discussing character and soul in bikes (or we were).

Vehicle.

Bugger.

Fair cop, guv...

[mangocrazy]

Same thing applies to bikes - it's all built in. You could call it fake, you could just call it a better understanding of what makes a bike feel the way it does.

Add 2.6% more damping, tweak the steering angle, put a bit of a spike in the torque curve etc. etc.

Bollocks. There's no fake sound track on any bike I've ever owned. And optimising damping and head angle are part and parcel of fine-tuning suspension and handling. Nothing 'fake' about that.

And frankly I'd wager that manufacturers are far more exercised about getting the best fuelling they can within the strictures of Euro 5, rather than artificially engineering a spike in the torque curve.

[Mr. Dazzle]

You think the sound just comes by accident and the exhaust isn't shaped to make it just right? Within the constraints of all the other stuff they have to make it do.

[wheelnut]

I’m not sure of the answer to the OP, but the only vehicle that I’ve sold that I miss, and regret selling, was a 1985 Land Rover defender.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I’m not sure of the answer to the OP, but the only vehicle that I’ve sold that I miss, and regret selling, was a 1985 Land Rover defender.

You're only saying that cause you don't have to maintain it any more

[mangocrazy]

You think the sound just comes by accident and the exhaust isn't shaped to make it just right?

Manufacturers have their hands tied by noise and emission regs. They do the best they can within those limits. Which is why an aftermarket can is often the first thing on punter's to do list. I can clearly remember the pathetic warble that the exhausts on my Falco emitted from new. It was a million miles away from 'just right'. But a pair of Akras and custom headers put that right. Now it is 'just right'.

[Mr. Dazzle]

They do, they always have.

My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.

[mangocrazy]

They do, they always have.

My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.

Not really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.

[Mr. Dazzle]

They do, they always have.

My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.

Not really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?

Just that the sad act Porsche ain't so differnet to any other vehcile you might buy, 2 wheels or 4

People in glass houses and all that.

[Mr. Dazzle]

TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.

AFAIK lots of the parallel twins you can buy these days are 270. I don't know for sure which ones are, but I'm pretty sure the Honda AT, various KTMs and the 660 prillers are.

[mangocrazy]

They do, they always have.

My point is, the idea that any bike made within the last few decades is "natural" is laughable. OEMs certainly pay alot more attention than they used to on this sort of thing, but the way a bike "feels" hasn't been an accident for a long long time. All that's changed is that people have a much better - and always improving- understanding of how to connect perception and quantifiable design changes now.

Not really sure what your point is here. It's not really a secret that manufacturers tailor their bikes to a specific audience by means of the way they look, sound, feel and go. The Italians in particular have been doing this for decades. It's all part of the selling process. If they get the design elements right, they sell a shed load to their target audience. So what is new?

Just that the sad act Porsche ain't so differnet to any other vehcile you might buy, 2 wheels or 4

People in glass houses and all that.

You're totally (and doubtless deliberately) missing the point. Porsche et al have artificially confected a pleasing exhaust note in car to try and fool punters that this is what their very expensive (and quite quiet) car sounds like.

Motorcycles don't do that. What you hear is the actual exhaust note, in case you weren't aware.

[KungFooBob]

TRX850 springs to mind, with it's 270 degree crank to make it feel like a V twin, it'd run better with the 180 degree crank the Super Tenere had.

AFAIK lots of the parallel twins you can buy these days are 270. I don't know for sure which ones are, but I'm pretty sure the Honda AT, various KTMs and the 660 prillers are.

Don't forget the worlds most important motorcycle... the MT07.