Energy bills

[Screwdriver]

So which companies are allowed to make a large profit and why?

Large is the wrong word; ecessive is what the problem actually is. There are no checks and balances. Global corp makes the rules, they say they are worth it. Quite how a fat cat energy CEO can look themselves in the mirror and declare they are worth six million pounds a year is beyond me. Maybe they don't have mirrors in the Caymans where they hoard all their money. Hey, that's just tax avoidance, perfectly reasonable, they say.

Why should ANY company be allowed to make excessive profits? They should not. Not ever. Unfortunately, they are also the ones who decide what is excessive and what constitutes a reasonable compensation. Millions of pounds a year for a glorified accountant? Who do they think they are Cristiano Renaldo?

So they set their own level of compensation for massively increasing prices, worsening services, before going bust and jumping on a yacht to go visit their money. Wait a few months then slap a few backs for the next big job.

[weeksy]

So you're basically going all in for communism?

Or is there an arbitrary figure of profit?

What about say American Gene Technologies who just created a cure for aids, should they be allowed because they do good things?

What about companies who give millions to charities but also make a profit?

[Yorick]

So you're basically going all in for communism?

Or is there an arbitrary figure of profit?

What about say American Gene Technologies who just created a cure for aids, should they be allowed because they do good things?

What about companies who give millions to charities but also make a profit?

If my pensions are invested in companies making shitloads I won't complain

[Mr. Dazzle]

Do you not think it a little ironic that you've chosen one of the few fields where the government artificially controls prices as your example?

[slowsider]

So you're basically going all in for communism?

Or is there an arbitrary figure of profit?

What about say American Gene Technologies who just created a cure for aids, should they be allowed because they do good things?

What about companies who give millions to charities but also make a profit?

If my pensions are invested in companies making shitloads I won't complain

Like Colston?
Or more recently IG Farben?

[Count Steer]

Do you not think it a little ironic that you've chosen one of the few fields where the government artificially controls prices as your example?

It's fair to raise/question/discuss whether pay packages at board level are grossly inflated though. Particularly of what were nationalised utilities. Some pretty good people ran some of them perfectly well on quite modest salaries. Should so much profit be siphoned off by the boards, are the people really good enough to justify it, is there real competition for the jobs to get the best or is it a closed shop etc etc etc?

One example: water. Would some of the money be better spent fixing leaks and reducing sewage in rivers? Would lower paid execs do worse?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Personally I think it should be illegal to profit from water and sewerage full stop. That basically means making them state run in reality.

Energy is tougher, you use it for both essential and non essential things so it's hard to say "no profit from energy". Profiting from a pensioner heating their flat? Dubious. Profiting from someone heating their indoor swimming pool or fuelling their 3rd car V8 SUV - can't say I have a problem with that. How would you tell them apart?

[Count Steer]

Personally I think it should be illegal to profit from water and sewerage full stop. That basically means making them state run in reality.

Energy is tougher, you use it for both essential and non essential things so it's hard to say "no profit from energy". Profiting from a pensioner heating their flat? Dubious. Profiting from someone heating their indoor swimming pool or fuelling their 3rd car V8 SUV - can't say I have a problem with that. How would you tell them apart?

Tiered pricing? For a given size property, first x kw @ £y, next lot @ £y*2 etc? Same with metered water? Easy enough to do technically and encourages efficiency/frugality maybe.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah I was thinking the same, I can't imagine it's even that far off with smart metres!

[Screwdriver]

So you're basically going all in for communism?

Or is there an arbitrary figure of profit?

What about say American Gene Technologies who just created a cure for aids, should they be allowed because they do good things?

What about companies who give millions to charities but also make a profit?

Apart from you, who has mentioned communism?

I am saying the entire capitalist system is failing because there are too many (perhaps too few?) greedy individuals capitalising on a failed economic model where the more money you have, the more money you get. It appears to be an exponential growth (hence the premise behind the game Monopoly) which inevitably leads to the situation we're in now.

Rather than tell me what I think, maybe you should just ask.

Big pharma is the greediest of the lot. They just used government money (i.e. taxpayers) to fund the rasearch and development of say, the COVID vaccine and ar now selling it back to the "government" (i.e. the taxpayers) at OBSCENE levels of profit. several hundreds of pounds compared to pennies to produce. Their profits during this period have been astronomical.

Companies give money which they would otherwise have to "lose" paying tax. Have a look at "The Gates Foundation". He's giving charitable donations to himself! What a cunt.

[weeksy]

So you're basically going all in for communism?

Or is there an arbitrary figure of profit?

What about say American Gene Technologies who just created a cure for aids, should they be allowed because they do good things?

What about companies who give millions to charities but also make a profit?

Apart from you, who has mentioned communism?

I am saying the entire capitalist system is failing because there are too many (perhaps too few?) greedy individuals capitalising on a failed economic model where the more money you have, the more money you get. It appears to be an exponential growth (hence the premise behind the game Monopoly) which inevitably leads to the situation we're in now.

Rather than tell me what I think, maybe you should just ask.

Big pharma is the greediest of the lot. They just used government money (i.e. taxpayers) to fund the rasearch and development of say, the COVID vaccine and ar now selling it back to the "government" (i.e. the taxpayers) at OBSCENE levels of profit. several hundreds of pounds compared to pennies to produce. Their profits during this period have been astronomical.

Companies give money which they would otherwise have to "lose" paying tax. Have a look at "The Gates Foundation". He's giving charitable donations to himself! What a cunt.

Why should ANY company be allowed to make excessive profits? They should not. Not ever.

Is that not to a great extent a form of communism?

[Screwdriver]

Why should ANY company be allowed to make excessive profits? They should not. Not ever.

Is that not to a great extent a form of communism?

No it is not. Are you saying that anyone who complains about companies making excessive profit is a commie?

It is particularly disgusting when it's essential items like food or medicine but when it comes to utilities, it really ought to be a crime. I can't literally buy my gas supply from anywhere else. There is no physical change to either gas, electric or water supplies. They are all the same services we (the people) bought and paid for when they were first installed.

Since then they have been so called "privatised" and a huge line of middlemen are chipping away at the overall cost, playing games with various financial instruments which are claimed to support the free market but are essentially a mechanism for pointless companies to shovel money out of the system and into their pockets.

[weeksy]

It is particularly disgusting when it's essential items like food or medicine but when it comes to utilities, it really ought to be a crime. I can't literally buy my gas supply from anywhere else. There is no physical change to either gas, electric or water supplies. They are all the same services we (the people) bought and paid for when they were first installed.

Since then they have been so called "privatised" and a huge line of middlemen are chipping away at the overall cost, playing games with various financial instruments which are claimed to support the free market but are essentially a mechanism for pointless companies to shovel money out of the system and into their pockets.

The same? You sure. The same filtration plants you paid for 30+ years ago? The same gas pocket? The same pipeline?

Sure, the last 5m into your house may be technically the same, but that's where it ends.

Your money and good will ran out a generation ago. That then got sold, the person now, owns it.

[Screwdriver]

The same? You sure. The same filtration plants you paid for 30+ years ago? The same gas pocket? The same pipeline?

Sure, the last 5m into your house may be technically the same, but that's where it ends.

Your money and good will ran out a generation ago. That then got sold, the person now, owns it.

OK fair point. I went too far. Time for a cuppa.

I am rewarding myself with an hour of central heating. I probably ought to start selling bikes anyway...

[weeksy]

I agree though that it'd be lovely for some things to be non profit or even free, but we've seen how that goes with quality of service, funding and actually delivering the product. It never goes well

The issue is, who would setup a company to research medicine if they were not allowed to make a profit? Where's the incentive for them? Apart possibly from saving the world and going down in history.
People are generally here with a desire to have creature comforts in life and for that, they need money

Watching thing like Star Trek it seems ace, no one pays for anything, ever. Everyone seems healthy and happy. It's great.
But it's only TV land

[Mr. Dazzle]

TBF thats where properly state run enterprises are a good idea. Not done for profit, but for necessity.

As I've asked before though; where you gonna find one of them?

[slowsider]

I agree though that it'd be lovely for some things to be non profit or even free, but we've seen how that goes with quality of service, funding and actually delivering the product. It never goes well

The issue is, who would setup a company to research medicine if they were not allowed to make a profit? Where's the incentive for them? Apart possibly from saving the world and going down in history.
People are generally here with a desire to have creature comforts in life and for that, they need money

Watching thing like Star Trek it seems ace, no one pays for anything, ever. Everyone seems healthy and happy. It's great.
But it's only TV land

"In 2006, BBC flagship news programme Newsnight featured Cuba's Healthcare system as part of a series identifying "the world's best public services". The report alleged that "Thanks chiefly to the American economic blockade, but partly also to the web of strange rules and regulations that constrict Cuban life, the economy is in a terrible mess: national income per head is minuscule, and resources are amazingly tight. Healthcare, however, is a top national priority" The report stated that life expectancy and infant mortality rates are nearly the same as the USA's. Its doctor-to-patient ratios stand comparison to any country in Western Europe. Its annual total health spend per head, however, comes in at $251; just over a tenth of the UK's."

[Count Steer]

TBF thats where properly state run enterprises are a good idea. Not done for profit, but for necessity.

As I've asked before though; where you gonna find one of them?

It's probably fair to say that the nationalised utilities weren't the most 'efficient' organisations if free market economics are the yardstick. Take gas (or electric) - 12 or 13 regions (based on civil defence boundaries originally for resilience) all with HQs with finance, personnel, IT etc. Out in the field, loads of direct employees (and varying levels of contract people as current fashions and demands dictated). It all looked rather lardy. On the plus side huge numbers of people got their training and experience with them and moved on out into the private sector - saving the private sector a fortune. Loads of fitters and engineers are now self-employed. Lots of people just saw inefficient, over-manned organisations but if you look closer they did rather more than just pipe gas/supply electricity - they trained '000s. They also poured cash directly into government coffers and responded to government initiatives/directives directly.

Privatisation was going to introduce competition and drive down prices. It has improved some services but hard to see some of the price cuts.

Water is a farce. No competition and most of it is now foreign owned. It's a rather strategic asset too.

National Grid (again a pretty strategic asset) at one point move ownership to Luxembourg and Hong Kong - to prevent a UK government from being able to take it back into national control. Good job they didn't move it to Moscow. Wonder if it's still in China controlled Hong Kong? I'll have to check.

Royal Mail? That's going well eh?

Not all rosy in the public sector though. The Post Office scandal shows that you can run things dreadfully in any model if you do a crap job of squeezing more money out of something. That's being privatised piecemeal, handing over Post Offices to WH Smith etc, but much of what it did is becoming irrelevant. (Ditto large parts of BT).

Governments are probably not the best thing to run businesses but, personally, privatisation doesn't appear to have been the rip-roaring, price cutting success that was promised. Nor has it improved national resilience and security in any way. Actual services may or may not have improved. Some made a few bob in cheap shares but not all the shares have done well in the long term. Some other countries seem to have found a better balance.

Kerrching. 2d.

[Dodgy69]

Greed really is the route of all evil and will eventually lead to the demise of life as we know it. There's plenty on the TV these day's that shows the damage we cause. The green folk do try their best, but they really are just pissing in the wind.

By the time water shortages start to effect the richer nation's, it'll all be too late as usual.

[weeksy]

Greed really is the route of all evil and will eventually lead to the demise of life as we know it. There's plenty on the TV these day's that shows the damage we cause. The green folk do try their best, but they really are just pissing in the wind.

By the time water shortages start to effect the richer nation's, it'll all be too late as usual.

The problem comes with how you define greed.

Is it Potters Porsche? Is it your mt09 and dirt bike? Is it my £3000 bicycle?

Arguably none of us need any of the above, so we're as bad as the rest?
But we as humans are here to better ourselves? So we're just doing that?