Getting older

[Skub]

1. Reaction times are slower.

Yes... and no.

I did some looking into this not too long ago and reaction times ARE longer from the mid-20s onwards, but the added time is measured in milliseconds.

It's usually compensated for by much quicker RECOGNITION time - which is the cognitive delay that never gets talked about. This is the time it takes for the brain to subconsciously analyse a developing situation and realise that a response is actually needed, and it can be measure in seconds. It's what catches inexperienced riders and drivers out more than anything - they simply don't spot the fact that they need to react till it's too late.

Part of that makes sense to me,but using the example of top class racers,what is it that makes them slower as they age,if it's not reaction time? Fitness and stamina levels will be on a par with a 20 y/o rider and a 35 y/o rider,so it has to be down to reaction time?

[Yorick]

1. Reaction times are slower.

Yes... and no.

I did some looking into this not too long ago and reaction times ARE longer from the mid-20s onwards, but the added time is measured in milliseconds.

It's usually compensated for by much quicker RECOGNITION time - which is the cognitive delay that never gets talked about. This is the time it takes for the brain to subconsciously analyse a developing situation and realise that a response is actually needed, and it can be measure in seconds. It's what catches inexperienced riders and drivers out more than anything - they simply don't spot the fact that they need to react till it's too late.

Part of that makes sense to me,but using the example of top class racers,what is it that makes them slower as they age,if it's not reaction time? Fitness and stamina levels will be on a par with a 20 y/o rider and a 35 y/o rider,so it has to be down to reaction time?

I packed it in at 55 and was still 100% alert. Just got tired quicker. One of my best pals is still getting wins at 60.

[slowsider]

1. Reaction times are slower.

Yes... and no.

I did some looking into this not too long ago and reaction times ARE longer from the mid-20s onwards, but the added time is measured in milliseconds.

It's usually compensated for by much quicker RECOGNITION time - which is the cognitive delay that never gets talked about. This is the time it takes for the brain to subconsciously analyse a developing situation and realise that a response is actually needed, and it can be measure in seconds. It's what catches inexperienced riders and drivers out more than anything - they simply don't spot the fact that they need to react till it's too late.

Advanced riding is mostly advanced thinking.


Its a bit like the 'two bulls in a field' story.

[Bigjawa]

1. Reaction times are slower.

Yes... and no.

I did some looking into this not too long ago and reaction times ARE longer from the mid-20s onwards, but the added time is measured in milliseconds.

It's usually compensated for by much quicker RECOGNITION time - which is the cognitive delay that never gets talked about. This is the time it takes for the brain to subconsciously analyse a developing situation and realise that a response is actually needed, and it can be measure in seconds. It's what catches inexperienced riders and drivers out more than anything - they simply don't spot the fact that they need to react till it's too late.

Part of that makes sense to me,but using the example of top class racers,what is it that makes them slower as they age,if it's not reaction time? Fitness and stamina levels will be on a par with a 20 y/o rider and a 35 y/o rider,so it has to be down to reaction time?

Can't agree mate, there's no way you will be as fit at 35 as you were at 20 unless you weren't fit at 20 to begin with. It's like boxers moving up weights, it's as much to do with the slower pace as it is making the actual weight. Look at Prince Naseem, he relied on speed and movement and was finished at 28. His mind was as sharp, but the body wouldn't react. There's a time where your body simply doesn't work like it used to.

FWIW, on the road, I'm usually dog slow now, I quite like being alive and for the last times I was out for a quick ride, it occurred to me that how fast I rode was directly linked to how much I wanted to make it home in one piece.

I had a few issues that meant that sportsbikes weren't comfortable, but they've been fixed so I can still ride one, the problem is, I'm not going to ever ride one beyond 25% of its capabilities on the road and I can't afford trackdays.

[Noggin]

Maybe that's why I've not made a real effort to meet others and ride in groups. I'd be picky and want riders who are similar to me. I like sharing my passion with people, but I get the impression that lots of people would be out to ride quickly and not appreciate the other aspects of riding.

I struggled to find good people to ride with - I was lucky to have an amazing riding buddy for a few years before I moved here (he died, not from bikes, just before I made the move)

I used to find everyone wanted to ride as fast as possible, but didn't do corners!!! Whereas I'm alright going a bit fast, but I do really like to do a set of corners spot on and faster !! I was similar on track. A little afraid of straight line speed, but could overtake quite often in corners

1. Reaction times are slower.

Yes... and no.

I did some looking into this not too long ago and reaction times ARE longer from the mid-20s onwards, but the added time is measured in milliseconds.

It's usually compensated for by much quicker RECOGNITION time - which is the cognitive delay that never gets talked about. This is the time it takes for the brain to subconsciously analyse a developing situation and realise that a response is actually needed, and it can be measure in seconds. It's what catches inexperienced riders and drivers out more than anything - they simply don't spot the fact that they need to react till it's too late.

I like that idea!!

[Noggin]

This is an interesting topic to me as I have had a few conversations about age with one of my physios. And he is very ageist (sadly as he's also seriously hot, but only 33!!!)

I want to get back to snowboarding (haven't done it since about three years before the shoulder accident, maybe 7 or 8 years ago; so whilst not a total beginner, I'd pretty much be starting from scratch) and I want to learn off piste/powder skiing too, and also off piste on a board. Neither of those I've done

From the grand age of 33, my physio is quite judgmental on this and it is pretty much the only thing I really do disagree with him about!!!

He is adamant that older people (over 45 apparently) hurt themselves more when they fall, so shouldn't start dangerous sports (or continue them too long). At 52 I am apparently "too old to learn to snowboard". I disagree. Partly because I'm not starting from scratch!

His argument is that older people (over 45's!) go out and are tense because they think that they will hurt themselves if they fall. (His experience is that his Dad - 57 - regularly hurts himself boarding). Because they are already tense, it affects their ability/skill and so then they do crash more and generally hurt more as a result of the tension that stays with them

I've tried often to explain to him that I don't do that. If I want to ski, I ski to a level that I'm safe and comfortable (and will have lessons to improve to be better). I did the same with bikes. I always have track instruction, I had amazing people teach me on the road, and I Never stop learning.

If I get on the bike and I'm tense and wary, I turn round and go home, give myself a talking to and try another day. If I was always tense and scared, then yes, I'd give up!! But I'm not

I'm not on skis either. There are days when I don't 'feel the love' and I go home. Or I make a mistake and try to correct myself with exercises on the way down the rest of the piste until I get to the bottom and decide if I've rebooted my confidence enough to go back up or not. Today I had a lesson with the guy that taught me to ski 11 years ago! I don't have enough lessons but that's cos generally I didn't earn much as a seasonaire and since moving here I've been broken and broke!! But he pushed me today and I've relearnt some necessary skills (and fallen over, but had I been tied up with tension, I'd have had to stop the lesson - as it was, I landed on my back and hit the back of my head and bruised my back between the shoulder blades - but carried on for another hour of the lesson - good example of no sense/no feeling!!)

I never assume I'm good. Never assume I won't make mistakes. Never believe I'm invincible. Always think I need more training and always willing to learn

But - if a sport/hobby makes me happy and I'm good enough to be safe and enjoy it, then why would I stop just because I'm 'old' ??? Of course, it doesn't help that my brain still thinks I'm 30-35 and most definitely NOT 50+!!! LOL


I appreciate that maybe there is a slowing of reactions. But I like what Spin said about experience balancing that out to a degree. But I think an awful lot of why we change as we age is how we think and our circumstances

I have a mate here who is about 3 or 4 years younger than me but damn I reckon he's 15 years or more older in thinking!! He doesn't want to do things that might hurt, can't be bothered to push himself, gave up bikes and seems close to giving up snowboarding. But he's got a daughter (although she's not a kid now, but I don't know how that would change a person as I'm not a parent) and he's just got engaged to someone that I suspect is a bit risk averse

Me, I still think I'm 30-35, I have no dependants, no one I'm responsible for and whilst yes I do know that landing hard hurts like a bastard and everything takes a bit longer to heal as I'm getting older, I can't see that as a reason not to do stuff

I've no idea if I'll ever ride a sports bike as 'slowly' as I used to (was pretty fast on the road but not fast enough in the straights on track to actually be fast!), but I know that I will want something with more oommf than the Monster once I've relearnt to ride and got a grip on the skills again! I do know that I WILL learn to paraglide (probably next summer), will relearn to snowboard and will 100% learn to ski off piste (cos the walking up a mountain to ski down in powder is the ultimate goal!).


Downside is that people my age sometimes seem very grown up and sensible (and sometimes, yes, boring). They don't want to do daft things or silly things, whereas I'm up for it (with a bit of limit due to the shoulder for a bit longer). Think I'm gonna struggle to find a partner out here cos men my own age are boring and miserable and guys 20 years younger probably don't want a mad 50+ weirdo!! LOL


But, TBF, I'm ok with that too - as long as I can still do the sports I love and have passion for. I reckon that by the end of this season, with the touring I'm doing and planning to do more of, I'll be fitter than I've been in 10 years. And I have a friend here that ski tours up the mountains on the other side of the valley to ski back down in deep powder. My goal is to be able to join him next year. I want to experience that. And so much more - don't think I'll ever manage mountain climbing as that looks a bit too challenging even if I had both arms working fully (given that the right one never will, I'll draw a line under than now!! LOL)


So, maybe I am a weirdo. Maybe it's lack of responsibilities. Maybe it's living somewhere when the passion for sports is high and the average age is fairly low. Maybe some people are just weird this way???

[Horse]

His argument is that older people (over 45's!) go out and are tense because they think that they will hurt themselves if they fall. Because they are already tense, it affects their ability/skill and so then they do crash more and generally hurt more as a result of the tension that stays with them

Learn to fall? Whether it's from judo, or something else (search on YouTube for how jockeys are trained!).

[Noggin]

His argument is that older people (over 45's!) go out and are tense because they think that they will hurt themselves if they fall. Because they are already tense, it affects their ability/skill and so then they do crash more and generally hurt more as a result of the tension that stays with them

Learn to fall? Whether it's from judo, or something else (search on YouTube for how jockeys are trained!).

Totally. TBF, I just seem to fall! And don't generally have time to get tense! But to start out tense from the fear of maybe falling is not a great way to start!

If I had a friend that skied/boarded like that I'd suggest learning to fall. But not worth bringing it up with the physio - I try REALLY hard to stay away from the age discussion because he won't accept that similar aged people don't all react the same!! LOL

[Mr Moofo]

Whilst on this subject , I have noticed that when I am coming down hills on a MTB, sometimes my vision has an issue keeping up with progress. I have no idea if this is real, or perceived.
It never happens on a motorbike - so it might be balance related (I have a compromised sense of balance- not sure why. As long as I can see a horizon I'm okay - but if I look left or right to talk to someone when cycling I will begin to veer off in the opposite direction) - and is particularly evident when it all gets a bit bouncy.

Or it might be that I am just old and should be doing other stuff

[Horse]

I saw a mate fall (at relatively low speed) when the bike's engine cut out. He just went into a forward roll and stood up. Martial arts training.

I've heard of others similar, at higher speeds.

Falling, really, is easy.

It's either staying or landing that's harder

[Noggin]

I saw a mate fall (at relatively low speed) when the bike's engine cut out. He just went into a forward roll and stood up. Martial arts training.

I've heard of others similar, at higher speeds.

Falling, really, is easy.

It's either staying or landing that's harder

I never learnt anything like that!!! I could have done with knowing how to fall backwards ok today!! But, whilst I suspect i have a bruise that the physio might need to check out next time (between my shoulderblades) the helmet saved my head!! LOL

[Supermofo]

I've slowed overall. In that I don't speed in towns or do 150 down the bypass but I still massively enjoy a good hoon I'm not fast but I definitely don't hang about when I'm in the mood.

[MrLongbeard]

I'm just cracking on as usual.

I did my direct access whilst SWMBO was preggers with Elise, so I never got the slowing down or giving up due to responsibilities phase, I must be a bad parent / person / selfish or something, any how, she's going to be 21 this year (no, fuck off, don't even ask) so more than old enough to cope should I chuck it under an artic or off the side of a mountain.

I get 12 months full sick pay from work, so who gives a hoot how long it takes my older body to heal.

[Horse]

But, whilst I suspect i have a bruise that the physio might need to check out next time (between my shoulderblades) the helmet saved my head!! LOL

If going backwards, look at your feet. Far better shoulders than - even helmeted - head.


There are several, here's one

[tricol]

Falling correctly can definitely be learned. I used to try and take tackles in football a certain way, to minimise the blunt force of a hit

Same as the MTB. Have enough falls to know that being able to get yourself into some kind of roll to help play out the energy of the crash, really helps.

For me fear is the biggest factor that slows me down. I know I have the mindset and ability to ride faster (MTB and motorbike) but fear stops. Fear of breaking bones and losing time recovering, or not healing correctly. I'm 39, so feel like the next number change will make a big difference in my head. I hope not.

[Noggin]

But, whilst I suspect i have a bruise that the physio might need to check out next time (between my shoulderblades) the helmet saved my head!! LOL

If going backwards, look at your feet. Far better shoulders than - even helmeted - head.


There are several, here's one

You definitely get some warning falling off a horse (I've done a bit of that!!! LOL). Today's effort I had less than a split second of warning! I did hit the back of my shoulders but so little warning that they were still rounded and so I've got a bruise between the shoulder blades - just bloody glad I wear a helmet skiing cos without that I suspect I'd have been typing this (or not) from hospital!!!

I'm just cracking on as usual.

I did my direct access whilst SWMBO was preggers with Elise, so I never got the slowing down or giving up due to responsibilities phase, I must be a bad parent / person / selfish or something, any how, she's going to be 21 this year (no, fuck off, don't even ask) so more than old enough to cope should I chuck it under an artic or off the side of a mountain.

I get 12 months full sick pay from work, so who gives a hoot how long it takes my older body to heal.

For me, the or something is living. Maybe I would feel differently if I'd had kids, or someone to worry about. Maybe. But I don't think it's a bad thing to do to teach a kid that you can love them 100% and still do the sports/hobbies that make you 'you'. Might make me a bad person thinking that way?

Falling correctly can definitely be learned. I used to try and take tackles in football a certain way, to minimise the blunt force of a hit

Same as the MTB. Have enough falls to know that being able to get yourself into some kind of roll to help play out the energy of the crash, really helps.

For me fear is the biggest factor that slows me down. I know I have the mindset and ability to ride faster (MTB and motorbike) but fear stops. Fear of breaking bones and losing time recovering, or not healing correctly. I'm 39, so feel like the next number change will make a big difference in my head. I hope not.

I think (for me) that fear is a choice in a lot of ways. I know for sure that any injury will take longer now to recover than when I was 20, but then, I didn't start riding bikes till I was 32 so had a bit of catching up to do. Although I'd ridden horses from the time I could sit up until I was 16, so maybe I get my lack of fear from that (and twice breaking my back)

Age is only limiting if you tell your brain that it is limiting. Yes, sometimes the acceptance that we can't be as fast or mad as we were might have to happen. But fear of injury etc, that has nothing to do with age!


Speaking as someone who became a seasonaire at 40 (well, I turned 41 in my second week out here!) I don't think of myself as old. A friend out here does a race every summer called the 6000D - 3400m of elevation gain over a 67km course in the mountains. He did the first one after he turned 50. Ok, in every other way he is a miserable sod since he turned 50, but equally, he only did the smaller races beforehand and now does the 6000D because, well, because he can!

[Whysub]

I used to ride fast on public roads occassionally, well in excess of the national limit, as part of my job. Following supercars at indicated speeds of 160-170 mph happened more than once. Got to hate other aspects of my work, so retired early, and this type of riding stopped.

Now I don't do such speeds. I do enjoy thrashing the Street Triple through the hills near me though. Not so much flat out high speed, but fast as I can through the bends. The straights linking the bends is where the police set their traps, and anyone can ride fast in a straight line. Where's the challenge in that?

I hate riding in groups with people I don't know, so don't do any of the group rides that take place here most weekends. Some of them take risks I would never have taken, even in the most pressing of circumstances. Mostly to show everyone how great they are. Which they are not.

The only exception to this is on Flash Tours, where the only time I am riding in a group is at the statrt of the day, and approaching coffee and lunch stops.

[Hairybiker84]

I want to get back to snowboarding (haven't done it since about three years before the shoulder accident, maybe 7 or 8 years ago; so whilst not a total beginner, I'd pretty much be starting from scratch) and I want to learn off piste/powder skiing too, and also off piste on a board. Neither of those I've done

Skiing off-piste is much harder than boarding off-piste. I have been skiing for years and boarded for about 8. Had many 'magic carpet rides' down untracked powder on the board but never had the same degree of success on skis, even fat ones. You don't have to go digging for your skis with a board either! If you want to accompany someone ski-touring next season have you thought about a split board?

[Noggin]

I want to get back to snowboarding (haven't done it since about three years before the shoulder accident, maybe 7 or 8 years ago; so whilst not a total beginner, I'd pretty much be starting from scratch) and I want to learn off piste/powder skiing too, and also off piste on a board. Neither of those I've done

Skiing off-piste is much harder than boarding off-piste. I have been skiing for years and boarded for about 8. Had many 'magic carpet rides' down untracked powder on the board but never had the same degree of success on skis, even fat ones. You don't have to go digging for your skis with a board either! If you want to accompany someone ski-touring next season have you thought about a split board?

I totally have!!! But it will cost the same for a split board set up as I spent on my ski touring set up!! LOL So that will have to wait a bit. TBH, the plan is to try and get a board and boots in the sale at the end of the season, then relearn to board next winter. If I get the hang of boarding again, then I'll look at a split board. It is definitely the goal really as the whole reason I wanted to learn to board was for the off piste!!

[The Spin Doctor]

I don't think I'm any slower on the road now than I was twenty years ago, and twenty years ago I was definitely a lot quicker than I was forty years ago. I still remember one ride in Spain where I managed to average just under 110 mph on a lively road full of sweeping bends, on the Hornet.

What's changed is WHERE I'm quicker.

I ran a course from someone from VD up in the Peaks one year. He admitted that he probably rode too fast on the road, and I concurred. He saw the road in the same way as a track and simply attempted to ride it accordingly. We spend a day trying to identify hazards and as we approached the end of the day, he'd slowed down dramatically.

But it was blindly obvious that he was holding himself back, that he didn't believe in what I was saying, and that as soon as he was over the horizon it would be back to normal and everything we'd talked about would be forgotten.

We'd already been up and down one lovely, twisty national limit stretch of road at least three times, and it really was last-chance - we'd already overrun the course by an hour and we both had to get home - me back to Kent!

So I did something I very rarely do. I said "you follow me and I'm going to ride this section as I would if there no speed limit".

I kept having to slow down to wait for him. At the end, I simply asked him to describe how I'd ridden the road. I still remember his words - "you were ballistically quick". Did he notice anything else? "You were much slower than me in a few places".

Why? Lightbulb moment. "Because they were the places you'd spotted a potential threat and were slowing down just in case".

He'd finally twigged. Speed isn't knowing where you could go fast - it's know where you MUST go slow.

We did that ride two more times - once either way with him leading both times. Big grin now. He'd cracked it.

That ride in Spain? It was thirty-odd miles of brand new EU funded road that connected nowhere with nowhere. Beautifully surfaced, on a plain with barely a plant either side of the road, hardly any side roads and hardly any buildings - and those that there were, you could see a mile before you got there. It was a silly speed in terms of the speed limit... but it was so easy to achieve because there was nothing that needed a slower approach.