JamJar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:52 pm
..... and only £52k
That's where I still get lost. For me 10k is too much for a car.
I still struggle with someone saying "only 52k for a Hyundai" with a straight face.
Used prices are strong because there are still people willing to pay for image and a global shortage of new cars. I think the prices are due a correction unless people have little choice or replacement batteries become cheaper.
JamJar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:52 pm
It's a bit more than I want to spend, it's the reason I like the Hyndai Ioniq 5, really outstanding interior comfort, a nice quirky look, and only £52k
The Hyundai seems like hugely good value to me, I suspect they're pricing it really favourably to get a good foothold in the market.
I can get one with tax, servicing, tyres, insurance etc. all included through work for £360pcm. By way of comparison a Mustang Mach E is £490pcm on the same scheme. Both cars have similar range etc, but the Hyundai is better specced inside.
Have you looked at the Polestar?
Yeah that’s my view too, I also think they are trying to gain a reputation of making good EV’s so they can launch an IONIQ 6 and 7. I am also thinking of the Polestar too. I have just booked another test drive, this is for the Merc EQA, my last 3 cars have been Mercs and I loved each one. The top spec EQA is similarly priced as all the others.
Asian Boss wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:06 pm
Doubling the cost of domestic UK electricity must make them less financially feasible.
This relates to my biggest confusion/gripe about electric cars. Nobody seems to care one iota about their economy. It's like everyone thinks electricity is free. (that was in my dad voice, like when I tell them to turn TVs off).
I was looking at some electric cars on Autotrader the other day, and there is literally no reference to economy under 'running costs' - just tax.
It's very strange - people obsess over mpg in ICE cars, but as soon as it's powered by electrickery everyone's all chill and couldn't give a shit. As long as the range is 5x longer than they'll ever need, nobody cares how much it'll actually cost for some reason.
And to your point, absolutely - from the increase in unit cost I've had in the last couple of months, a Peugeot e-208 (for example) would go from an equivalent of 180mpg to 100mpg now, at current fuel costs. That's good, but what would an ICE do (equally theoretically)? 60? 65?
Another big price jump and the only saving will be the temporarily lower tax cost.
It's done in Whr/mile and it's freely available. They don't put it front and centre 'cuase it's not a headline grabber like MPG, but it's there. For example the Model 3 claims 243Whr/mile for one model, which means a kWhr would get you just over 4 miles.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:48 pm
It's done in Whr/mile and it's freely available.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting electric cars don't have an economy rating (!), I'm saying that magazines/reviewers/general public obsess over ICE economy and completely gloss over electric economy as if it's not relevant, to the extent that some mag reviews (and autotrader ads) don't even provide a figure.
Also, I can't speak for the industry, but it's always quoted the other way round as m/kWh when it is given.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:48 pm
It's done in Whr/mile and it's freely available.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting electric cars don't have an economy rating (!), I'm saying that magazines/reviewers/general public obsess over ICE economy and completely gloss over electric economy as if it's not relevant, to the extent that some mag reviews (and autotrader ads) don't even provide a figure.
Magazines obsessing over almost irrelevant stuff (like top speeds in the region of 200 mph) and ignoring real practical stuff. It's a very good job that bike mags aren't like that.
Popped up on my LinkedIn today - UK's first EV battery recycling plant was announced today. It'll have the capacity to reprocess 20% of the expected total number of old EV batteries by 2024, although that's not clear if they mean the total number of EoL batteries around in 2024, or by 2024 it'll be able to reprocess 20% of the EoL batteries expected when everyone's driving electric.
'tis obviously only one plant and the UK is only one country, but you hear the "no-one's considering what happens to the old batteries" thing loads. Here's the clear counter argument to that, not only are people thinking about it they're taking it seriously enough to put millions into it.
Makes total commercial sense of course. Recycling stuff is generally loads cheaper than making it brand new, so if you can get ahead of the curve and build an efficient recycling process you're gonna be in a good place.
Solar is the way forward in the UK. No wait. Was just reading this interesting article. This camper in a sunny country will run longer than your EV. Ill presume you can also plug these in for more juice if its overcast
Felix wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:45 pm
Solar is the way forward in the UK. No wait. Was just reading this interesting article. This camper in a sunny country will run longer than your EV. Ill presume you can also plug these in for more juice if its overcast
More vehicles are going to end up 'looking' like that (if not with the solar etc) as it's a very slippery shape which will reduce drag and increase range.
Rockburner wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:40 am
More vehicles are going to end up 'looking' like that (if not with the solar etc) as it's a very slippery shape which will reduce drag and increase range.
This just popped up recently.
I assume that theyve factored in more of the supply chain for the fuel.
"Electric vehicles are more carbon-intensive to manufacture compared to gasoline cars, but drivers make up for those additional carbon costs by driving just 7,000 miles in the UK, a new analysis found.
According to an analysis by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT), an independent research organization based in Berlin, an average mid-range gasoline engine, about the size of a VW Golf, causes around 7.2 tons of CO2 emissions.
In comparison, the production of an electric car of a similar size causes around 9.2 tons of CO2 emissions. Most of the additional pollution associated with an electric vehicle is due to the battery, which is carbon intensive to manufacture.
But the analysis by ICCT shared with I, shows that this “carbon debt” can be offset after 7,061 miles of electric vehicle travel in the UK.
While gasoline cars spit exhaust gases out of the exhaust pipe, electric cars run on electricity from the grid and thus emit significantly fewer emissions on the way.
ICCT calculated that a battery electric car powered by the UK grid produces 35g of CO2 per km, compared to the average gasoline car that emits 211g of CO2 per km.
In England, the average new car will drive around 10,400 miles in each of its first three years on the road, according to RAC. Based on this mileage, a new electric car will break even in less than a year compared to a gasoline-powered vehicle.
Dr. Georg Bieker, researcher at ICCT, added the British numbers I‘s request. He separately assessed the carbon impact of the production and use of electric vehicles around the world.
He said UK EV drivers would break even more quickly on their car’s carbon cost in the UK than anywhere else in the world, including the EU, as the UK electricity grid uses more renewable energy. In 2020, the last year for which figures are available, renewable energies such as wind and sun generated 43 percent of grid electricity.
“Great Britain has a cleaner network than the European average and with it the advantages [of driving an electric car] are even higher, ”he said I.
For example, in the US, where more coal is burned to produce electricity, an electric vehicle would have to travel 14,167 miles (22,800 km) before breaking even with a gasoline car.
Bigger electric cars with bigger batteries would have to be driven a little farther to break even with a gasoline engine, as would electric cars from China, which is heavily reliant on coal.
But over the course of an 18-year lifetime in the UK, with an average annual mileage of 13,500 km, even the largest “SUV” electric cars have a lifetime carbon footprint that is more than 50 tons lower than that of a comparable petrol car.
ICCT performed the same comparison between battery electric cars and diesel cars and gave almost the same results, said Dr. Bieker.
The results agree with an analysis by the consulting firm Ricardo AEA for the European Commission and a separate assessment of the climate website Carbon Brief. However, it deviates significantly from the calculations of the automotive industry.
In November, Volvo released life cycle calculations for its C40 Recharge, suggesting that the electric SUV would have to drive 48,000 miles in the EU to break even with a similar gasoline engine.
More to Electric vehicles
As the industry scales for electric cars and lithium-ion batteries, electric car production is expected to become more efficient, making electric vehicle production less carbon intensive. But the trend towards bigger cars with bigger batteries could partially offset this advancement, warned Dr. Bieker.
Transport researchers also emphasize that walking, cycling or public transport is still by far the cleanest mode of transport. The UK’s climate advisors say car traffic will have to decrease by nearly 20 percent by 2050 to meet the country’s net-zero targets.
“The best choice for the climate would always be not to drive a car at all,” said Dr. Bieker. “Electric cars are not good. They are just a lot less bad than conventional cars. “
I'm seeing a LOT of Teslas around between here and Geneva. Usually French reg, some Swiss and a few other country visitors
It's interesting to me as the company I work for has 3 Teslas they use for transfers. Seeing so many private ones (and quite a few as taxis - although the taxis are around Geneva and Annecy, not in the mountains!) on the roads made me wonder a bit. 1, is there a major deal going on?!! 2, are they 'really' that good? 3, how much assistance might I get to have one for the business!! LOL
They do look a bit lovely though. REALLY want to try driving one of the work ones, but think it'll be a while before they let me do that
Life is for living. Buy the shoes. Eat the cake. Ride the bikes. Just, ride the bikes!!
Noggin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:42 pm
I'm seeing a LOT of Teslas around between here and Geneva. Usually French reg, some Swiss and a few other country visitors
It's interesting to me as the company I work for has 3 Teslas they use for transfers. Seeing so many private ones (and quite a few as taxis - although the taxis are around Geneva and Annecy, not in the mountains!) on the roads made me wonder a bit. 1, is there a major deal going on?!! 2, are they 'really' that good? 3, how much assistance might I get to have one for the business!! LOL
They do look a bit lovely though. REALLY want to try driving one of the work ones, but think it'll be a while before they let me do that
One of the labourers on a site I was on last year had a Tesla, said it was the nicest car he'd ever owned.
I'm not so keen on the electric everything part of em.
Lecky motor? Faark yeah. The other guff? Not so much.
Personally I just wantba vehicle to work, not to be an entertainment system.
It was obvious really that the big petrol companies were going to diversify at some stage. They may appear stubborn but they're pretty intelligent and can see the way the wind is blowing.
