Are bikes getting too complicated?

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Count Steer
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Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Count Steer »

There seem to be lots of posts about warning lights, fault codes and general electronics stuff like snatchy fuelling/mapping etc. Very few actual mechanical faults. (Same with cars).

However did we manage before we had all this electronic wizardry? Half the time the problems seem to be with the electronics rather than the engine it's supposed to be managing. At the current trajectory bikes will be like i-Phones, 5 years, no more software updates/support....scrap. :lol:

Does anyone make a bike that doesn't need an IT guru to maintain it if you plan to keep it for 20 years?
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by KungFooBob »

All new bikes over 125cc have to have ABS.

All new bikes have to achieve specific emission targets that require fine fuel control, so pretty much everything has EFI.

I blame Euro 5.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by wull »

Years ago when things started to change, not just with vehicles but everyday items my gran used to say “automatic awe tae fuck”………she was spot on!
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by dern »

I'm not a fan of the over complication of bikes, I don't want time to be rewound I just would like the choice to not have it or, more specifically, not to pay for it.

On the other hand cars have been going this way for years. I've always done my own maintenance on cars and bikes and it's not actually made that much difference. Using a code reader and replacing a sensor every now and again is probably easier than jetting a carb imo. It's just a different skill to learn.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Can't have it both ways.

You want to go faster, stop harder, corner quicker, ride smoother and also burn less fuel to do it all?

Well....what do you think is required for al lthat?

Edit: I suppose you could make a simpler bike which is slower etc. But who's gonna buy it?
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by slowsider »

Manual advance/retard and hand oil pump ftw :)
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Cousin Jack »

If you took all the gubbins and gizmos off, and accepted that 500cc was enough, bikes could be light and simple. And still far more capable than most riders.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by KungFooBob »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:02 am Edit: I suppose you could make a simpler bike which is slower etc. But who's gonna buy it?
I own a 2014 Enfield Bullet 500, it's got what they call the UCE engine. It's fuel injected. Hitchcocks (the UK's largest purveyor of Enfield parts) sell a kit to convert it carb. I'm a member of various owners groups and it's a surprisingly popular conversion.

It's not like the EFI is shit either, it's a proper keihin system.

They sell a kit to convert the front wheel to drum as well, but I don't think that's a popular :)
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

So people want an old bike which rides like an old bike, but which is brand new.

Sounds like a Harley to me ;) Look what they're having to do with new models as their customers die off.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Yorick »

It's not over complicated. If bikes were designed and made properly, they'd work OK. It's generally the budget bikes have problems.

None of my 7 GSXR1000s have had any technical problems.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Skub »

The last bike I owned which never needed third party servicing skills,was my 1991 ZZR1100. There was bodywork to remove,but once that was done,gaining access to carbs or valve clearances was very straightforward. No cams out to change shims,just slide the rocker to one side and you're in.

I knew that bike inside out and enjoyed spannering it. It was lovingly built from scratch (ha) as a write off.

The bikes I've had after that have all been increasingly more awkward to work on. It's not so much that the tech has changed,for me it's needing hands like a spider monkey to get at anything. That's when I lost interest in anything beyond basic servicing.
Even getting the sparkplugs out on my ZX10R was an endurance test. I paid a bloke to do them and the valve clearances. That would never have happened in the past.

Personally,I think I've let that side of biking go. I just do the basics,which quite often is all that's required,then pay for work I can't be arsed to do.

So to answer the Count's question another way,yes there is an element of biking that has been diminished. Knowing your own bike inside out and never needing another to do work,was always my mode of operation. My bike was my bike and I kept it right. I only used dealers for spares. So it's not so much the electronics which bother me,it's the inaccessibility resulting from the compact nature of modern bikes.

However,having blathered on,I'd rather put up with losing the dirty hands than forever ride bikes that handled like my 70s wobblers,so I suppose I have no right to yap. :lol:
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Count Steer »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:02 am Can't have it both ways.

You want to go faster, stop harder, corner quicker, ride smoother and also burn less fuel to do it all?

Well....what do you think is required for al lthat?
Electronics that don't go on the blob if you change a battery or throw pointless error codes if it's a Thursday. Just because it's complicated doesn't mean it HAS to be flakey. By all means, put the electronics in, but make them work properly first. For a start you could make warning lights go off if an error resolves rather than staying on until you interrogate and reset. Even my old Volvo could do that with the engine management warning.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Dodgy69 »

Yes, too many sensors and fragile tech. I'd love to have a brand new one of these. I had a 1989 E reg 130 saloon and loved it. Had 2 mates who had the 1.8 aswel.

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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

I own a motorcycle with no electronics more sophisticated than the ignition. It's spectacularly unreliable, easily the objectively worst vehicle I've owned by far.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by mangocrazy »

We live in a world where emissions regs are tight and getting ever tighter, and that is not going to change. To achieve the increasingly stringent emissions targets, manufacturers rely more and more on electronics and that is also a one-way street. What I'm unconvinced by is the way electronics are creeping into every other area of bike design, and those unaffected by Euro X regulations such as electronic suspension. I'm perfectly happy with fully mechanical/hydraulic suspension control and would be very wary of anything involving electronics. Leave the electronics to where they are pretty much compulsory (engine management) and keep the rest of the bike electronics-free.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:27 am Sounds like a Harley to me
Bloody love my high tech Harley, I can go in via my Vance & Hines Fuelpak FP3 tuner and bugger about with absolutely every setting there is, add and remove features, piss about with the fuelling tables, enable bolt on accessories, diagnose and clear faults etc. all from the handy dandy app on my phone.

It can be a smidge daunting, but once you put your big boy pants on and do a modicum of research it's bloody good.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

I can do that on my 1997 Triumph. There aren't many features to add to be fair, cause the bike doesn't have much hardware to support them, but you can modify rhe fueling and a few other things.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Yorick »

MrLongbeard wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:59 am
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:27 am Sounds like a Harley to me
Bloody love my high tech Harley, I can go in via my Vance & Hines Fuelpak FP3 tuner and bugger about with absolutely every setting there is, add and remove features, piss about with the fuelling tables, enable bolt on accessories, diagnose and clear faults etc. all from the handy dandy app on my phone.

It can be a smidge daunting, but once you put your big boy pants on and do a modicum of research it's bloody good.
Can you fine tune the potato potato exhaust sound?
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Scotsrich »

I can do the mechanical side without any problems but nowadays that side never seems to go wrong.

The last thing I did was replace the head bearings and radiator on my old ZZR. Now I’m into newer bikes, and let’s face it lower mileage as well I can see me never having to lay a hand on it.

The electronics however are a different matter and I’m just glad I’ll have a manufacturer’s warranty. I’ll just fire it back to the dealer. If there were no electronics I’d quite happily forego that and do any servicing myself.

I bought the GS1250 because I liked the bike itself. Riding position, performance, handling all suit me. Because I’m buying new I can afford all the stuff that will go wrong..because warranty. Honestly if I was buying a bike a few years old from a private buyer I don’t think I’d choose a GS.

I think there’s a lot of people in my position. Buy new and it doesn’t matter how complicated it is, problems later down the line someone else can sort out.
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Re: Are bikes getting too complicated?

Post by Skub »

Yorick wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:35 pm Can you fine tune the potato potato exhaust sound?
You need a chip for that,sir.
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