Stealth Omicron

[Bwana]

It's not exactly fact then is it?

It just leads to folk (like my niece) who hasn't had her kids vaccinated for -anything- because "you never know".

Yes, yes we do in most instances. I'd agree that we probably don't know, yet, on any long-term impacts of covid vaccines. And also that probably long term we'll only do covid vaccines on the most vulnerable.
What I object to is bollocksy guesswork because in two minutes it becomes Facebook hysterical fact.

I’m not sure it is bollocksy guesswork in this case, the government were initially fairly clear that young kids are not at risk from Covid. They are quite open about the fact they are giving young kids the vaccine to protect the older generation.

That’s what I have a bit of issue with as it goes against all previous medical ethical guidelines.

Apparently children are at risk for hospitalization and long term effects of COVID-19. A little reading material for you:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... facts.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... -rcna10741

[irie]

Getting sidetracked, but is there really any verifiable evidence of risk from covid vaccine (to minors) other than the "there's always some risk" bollocks that is trotted out when any medication is administered?

The risk we're talking about here is miniscule and, largely, not scientifically verifiable as a related adverse event. We're talking about conjecture.

There may be a long term health risk of Covid in minors but for an obvious reason that can only be conjecture. So there is a balance between the conjectured risk of minors having Covid jabs and the conjectured risk of minors having Covid ... which may be significant given the well documented elevated health risk of Covid to the obese and overweight ...

Childhood obesity in England

9.9% of reception age children (age 4-5) are obese, with a further 13.1% overweight. At age 10-11 (year 6), 21.0% are obese and 14.1% overweight.

[slowsider]

Wearing a mask for a few weeks in school is neither here nor there.

Agreed.
But we're not talking about a few weeks, we're almost two years in now and this has got another couple to run, so if you're six years old and you've spent 2/3rds of your life not being able to interpret facial signals from your friends when you've been socialising, then you're going to communicate differently by 2024 - no one knows what the results of that will be, because despite all the pretty unpleasant animal testing that goes on in the name of medicine and psychology, no one has ever been monstrous enough to make six year old children wear masks for 2/3ds of their lives.

However, I go back to what I said, it's always 'on behalf of the vulnerable' but we seem to be short of anyone saying that they're so scared of dying that they're willing to force primary school kids into unpleasantness. No one here has stepped forward, so it seems that we're all talking on behalf of these mythical human beings that are vulnerable and want to survive at all and any costs, I wonder who they are and how they justify their own lives being so important.

Its wearing masks that permits the socialising; otherwise you limit spread by lockdown, which will undoubtedly impact on kids' mental health.

[Supermofo]

We're isolating now as a family, because thems the rules, so we're all confined to barracks, but not doing any sort of internal isolation in the house, we'll just let it do it's thing.

We tried to isolate within the house when my wife caught it, but once my daughter was positive it was much harder as she's 8 and close to my son who's 9 but again we tried. Once my son and I were positive after the girls were done with it we gave up and just isolated as a family in the hope the girls were now immune. But in hindsight I think we shouldn't have bothered and possibly we'd have had a Xmas as me and the lad would have got it sooner.

Good luck hope it's as mild as we had it

[Noggin]

Say what now?

95% of the vaccines I've had were given to me as a child. Until recently it was 100%

The reason for that is that it was to protect you against illnesses that could do you a lot of harm when you were a kid. That’s not the case with Covid. The reason we are giving kids the vaccine is to protect others, and that’s not right.

Surely many are to protect kids when they become adults and to eradicate diseases (I'm not as learned as most of you, but smallpox is one. and there is a resurgence in things like measles because people have slowly started to refuse vaccines - and that affects adults as well as children)

I'm sure I've written it before but, here, children need 11 vaccines before they can start school. They start school at 3.

It's not exactly fact then is it?

It just leads to folk (like my niece) who hasn't had her kids vaccinated for -anything- because "you never know".

Yes, yes we do in most instances. I'd agree that we probably don't know, yet, on any long-term impacts of covid vaccines. And also that probably long term we'll only do covid vaccines on the most vulnerable.
What I object to is bollocksy guesswork because in two minutes it becomes Facebook hysterical fact.

I’m not sure it is bollocksy guesswork in this case, the government were initially fairly clear that young kids are not at risk from Covid. They are quite open about the fact they are giving young kids the vaccine to protect the older generation.

That’s what I have a bit of issue with as it goes against all previous medical ethical guidelines.

Surely they are giving the vaccine to protect everyone including the kids

Originally we were told that only fat or ill people would get covid in a bad way. That has very much been proven to be false. Do you really believe that Covid won't affect children? Or are a few a risk worth taking?

[DefTrap]

Let's just speak for ourselves rather than for imaginary other people, do you want to lock kids up or force them to only socialise with masks for the next year or so, in order to save yourself?

No but what would you say if (IF!) it could be proven that had we already done so we would be largely out of this mess by now? We all know what little germ carriers children are - my daughters family are in a constant round of colds and minor bugs that are passed around nursery and satellite families. I remember what that was like myself.

If we can't/won't vaccinate them and can't/won't mask them up then we just leave the door wide open and we turn a blind eye to an obviously risky cohort because it's too difficult to deal with? In that case why are the rest of us bothering?

I don't entirely disagree by the way - the science, the emotion, the policy to defeat covid is muddled and massively open to criticism.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm not sure how many vaccinations kids get before school...I've taken Baby D for at least 4 sets (she's just turned 4) and each time its been 3 or 4 at a time. If I racked my brains I'd remember them all...or I could just look in her little red NHS book

I don't go into it blindly before anyone says it. I remember reading up on it before and I remember being satisfied it was safe. I don't remember the specifics of why, but I do remember being satisfied...which is good enough for me.

I know most of them are multi part affairs. Shes certainly had more than I did as a kid, I've probably had more than most of you lot too. I also don't even remember everything I've had! Measles, Mumps, Rubella (what do those three letters make?), Heps A and C, Meningitis of some letter, TB (think they don't do that any more?) and Tetanus for sure.

I tell a lie, I also had Typhoid to go to India when I was an adult, so pre Covid all but one of my jabs were before or at school.

I can honestly say that I've always been 50/50 on the "me vs everyone else" aspect of it. As in, the protecting other people/herd immunity element has always figured into my thinking and it is a big part of why I made sure Baby D was jabbed. Its not even completely altruistic, we all benefit from herd immunity even if we're jabbed.

In some small way its like giving blood. I do that too and it's got some very minor risk associated with it. That really does have ZERO tangible benefit to me, but I still do it.

[DefTrap]

However, I go back to what I said, it's always 'on behalf of the vulnerable' but we seem to be short of anyone saying that they're so scared of dying that they're willing to force primary school kids into unpleasantness. No one here has stepped forward, so it seems that we're all talking on behalf of these mythical human beings that are vulnerable and want to survive at all and any costs, I wonder who they are and how they justify their own lives being so important.

Hilarious. Not only stepping into, but balls-deep in the Facebook-style hysteria?

Me please Sir, I'd rather not be dead. I don't go around all day doing daredevil stunts to prove how fecking oblivious I am to mortality. I don't think I'm on any vulnerable list, mind. Interesting how some of us have so readily put "fat people" on the list of those who are expendable. Pretty sure my folks in their 80s would rather not be dead too, nor lifetime curtailed, not needlessly anyway.

Has the anti-mask movement finally realised that moaning about their civil liberties just makes them look childish and the only way forward for them is to pretend that masking-up is killing the kiddies?

[slowsider]

Its wearing masks that permits the socialising; otherwise you limit spread by lockdown, which will undoubtedly impact on kids' mental health.

Let's just speak for ourselves rather than for imaginary other people, do you want to lock kids up or force them to only socialise with masks for the next year or so, in order to save yourself?

No, but the thing about public health measures is that it's not just about me. I have no small ones, I don't mix with people who do, and I'm double jabbed and boosted. Its an unlikely vector to infect me.
I would, however, have gladly foregone one or more of those vaccinations if it meant that a globally more significant number of people could get at least one. We are dealing with Omicron because we didn't deal adequately with Alpha or Delta.

[weeksy]

I just wanted to see who was so scared that they wanted to force kids into masks, you've all said no, so you either don't want kids in masks or you don't have the balls to admit that you do.

The rest of your posts are just wriggling because you've been forced to make a call on it.

All ? Barely any of us have replied. My lad will be wearing a mask.... right or wrong, i dunno... but he'll be wearing it at school.

[DefTrap]

Well I'll put my hand up (I thought I already had) - if putting kids in masks at school is genuinely what it takes to solve the problem, then yes. I think the claims of mental and learning issues, that some of us are enjoying torturing ourselves with, are overblown. I think folk are enjoying making a pointless point. I think there are alternatives - those plastic masks for example, bingo!, problem solved - use your imagination.

I had to endure 1970s primary school teaching. I'm sure if you wanted to you could make a case for my mental health being affected by archaic teaching methods, limited pastoral care and the threat of corporal punishment. But meh I thought we were all made of sterner stuff and we should let the feeble, less intelligent, and fat ones burn? Only when it suits us apparently.

[DefTrap]

Yeah you did, you said no.

Thanks Irie.
FFS. I said No I don't want to, of course I don't. But I would, if it helped. Maybe we should ask the kids "Do you want to save old Granddad or fat uncle Jim (who should know better) from the covids? All you have to do is wear this papery mask, like everyone else" My young adult son has had covid at least twice, worn masks throughout and had 3 "pointless" vaccs in an attempt to save others.

Moi wriggling? You don't seem to have a plan apart from "save the kiddies and I'll happily and selflessly die". Or rather, some other bods can go and die.

[Horse]

Your boy isn't in primary school, he had his time to develop his communication skills

Ahem. Kids have 4 years at home to be helped developing those skills before they get to school.

[weeksy]

Anyway, my point is made, I'll mask up to save "the vulnerable" even though I don't want to, but I draw the line at making primary school kids mask up every time they leave the house for the next couple of years. I think it's so damaging to kids development that I'd rather peg it.

In fairness I do appreciate that I'm a ballsy over-achieving above-average sort of bloke who doesn't scare easily, and many of you won't have the same fortitude though.

Really ? You're THAT bored today ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I remember ages ago watching Red Bull's documentary about that chap who skydived from the edge of space. Felix Baumgartner I think, or something like that.

He is the stereotypical Red Bull flagship dare devil, leaping feet first into stuff that makes most people shiver a little bit.

He absolutely freaked out when he had to wear a close fitting helmet and pressure suit. I remember he had to be coached through it by Joe Kittinger - the guy who set the previous ultra high altitude parachute record with NASA in the 60s - speaking like he was calming a child.

It's funny what people are scared of innit?

[Horse]

Ahem. Kids have 4 years at home to be helped developing those skills before they get to school.

Is there any point or argument to that statement?

You brought it up, so you tell us what you meant.

Your boy isn't in primary school, he had his time to develop his communication skills

[Tricky]

Anyway, my point is made, I'll mask up to save "the vulnerable" even though I don't want to, but I draw the line at making primary school kids mask up every time they leave the house for the next couple of years. I think it's so damaging to kids development that I'd rather peg it.
.....

Echos my view on it really.
I'm not seeing the risk: benefit argument as stacking up and am finding the decision very hard to understand from a logical perspective- similarly with the seemingly finger-in-the-air rules around enforced quarantining for anyone who tests positive.

As far as I can make out, Covid isn't really any more life-threatening to the average (vaccinated) person than, for instance, flu or the common cold, it is here for the foreseeable and now we have a decent level of protection for the masses, we just need to get on with life in the same way we have done pre-Covid...

[DefTrap]

Lol, no but yeah but no, but yeah.
You've got more wriggle than Boris and Kier together.

Such high praise. I remember when you had your tongue so far up Boris's rear end most of your head was gone.

Yep, I don't think this is black and white. I do think we're approaching a point where Western societies are starting to say "Meh, we're done with these <restrictions> now" now that we have a bit more of a handle on Omicron and the vaccine program. So you're preaching to the converted. I don't think we need to introduce your hysterical child protection angle.

But none of us (as far as I am aware) are qualified in epidemiology or soothsayers, so it could easily go the wrong way. If it was easy there'd be plenty of folk investing/selling their shares in mask-making factories. I might start printing "End of the World OMEGA variant" t-shirts with pictures of traumatised toddlers on.

[Yorick]

What if another more severe strain pops up and everybody has stopped wearing masks?
I'm happy to carry on for a bit longer.

[Horse]

What if another more severe strain pops up

Back when this all started in the uk, I recall seeing someone say that typical development is more contagious but less dangerous.

But who it was, what their qualifications were, and whether that was correct?