Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DOP with prop gun!

[Cousin Jack]

If you hire a brain surgeon you would require some proof of competency.

A lot of comments on this thread of "Well, I would have checked ... this this n this"

Great. I know nothing of guns, so would probably put my trust in the people who provided it and those asking me (directing) what to do with it.

But brain surgery, that's an interesting comparison. AFAIK you don't have any medical qualifications or professional experience, so how would you as a potential innocent victim / patient (delete as applicable) check one out before going under the knife?

I ask having met four neurologists and had brain surgery recently, and now wonder what and how you think I should have checked?

Starting with a recognised hospital would be a good idea. I doubt I could tell a brain surgeon from a charletan, but I expect most major hospitals could. And most brain surgeons will have a history, where they studied, who they have worked with, etc.

Similarly if I was hiring say a sword master for a film I would start with a recognised expert from say the Royal Armouries to help chose. Plenty of recognised authorities on guns available.

[Screwdriver]

Why was the gun allowed out if she wasn't present?

I know right. That is in fact the thrust of my argument. The whole scenario smacks of a cavalier attitude to gun safety from the entire production team.

In a twist of irony the film “Rust” is about an accidental shooting and that Baldwin is a notoriously vociferous anti-gun campaigner…

[Horse]

Starting with a recognised hospital would be a good idea. I doubt I could tell a brain surgeon from a charletan, but I expect most major hospitals could. And most brain surgeons will have a history, where they studied, who they have worked with, etc.

Similarly if I was hiring say a sword master for a film I would start with a recognised expert from say the Royal Armouries to help chose. Plenty of recognised authorities on guns available.

Well, you've answered it by saying that experts should make the decisions, when I'd asked about about an amateur - someone who knows nothing.

I have no exhaustive list of the varied trades that work on films. But it's not beyond the realms of possibility that an enthusiastic amateur could successfully blag a career (Google medical imposters to see more than a few examples) could get employed.

I'm not suggesting that's what happened. Instead, however it's happened - I'm agreeing with you, it seems (as you have said, in different words) to be a terrible example of a clusterf@ck.

However, I don't know what AB's level of 'making it happen' involvement he actually had. Without knowing that, isn't it difficult to attribute the blame to them?

[MrLongbeard]

I have no exhaustive list of the varied trades that work on films. But it's not beyond the realms of possibility that an enthusiastic amateur could successfully blag a career (Google medical imposters to see more than a few examples) could get employed.

Who does the hiring n firing in the filum world.
I would hope that they wouldn't allow a rabid anti gun nut of a producer have any say on who is expertly qualified to be an armourer, I don't think he could tally up yet another stinker of a tick against him if he did.

[MrLongbeard]

According to IMDB this was Hannah Gutierrez second job as an armourer https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10588398/?ref_=fn_al_nm_3 after stepping up from wardrobe.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10588398/?ref_=fn_al_nm_3

Her dad, who is said to have trained her has a long history and career as an armourer and expert;
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0715715/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

[Cousin Jack]

Perhaps she was qualified but lacked the gravitas to make her professional opinion stick.

[Horse]

The armourer said he was competent and checked out, but actually wasn't.

Also, she was not present and really, not being present ought to mean no guns on set!

Why was the gun allowed out if she wasn't present?

https://lawandcrime.com/celebrity/armor ... est-thing/

The armorer who court documents say prepared the gun used by actor Alec Baldwin in a deadly film set shooting

Links to:

https://lawandcrime.com/celebrity/assis ... g-warrant/

The Santa Fe New Mexican reported that sheriff’s deputies were combing the property for evidence and were attempting to determine whether the shooting was recorded. The local newspaper identified Dave Halls as the assistant director who handed the gun to Baldwin. It further said that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had prepared the cart of guns before Halls removed one of the weapons for Baldwin’s use.

[Cousin Jack]

I think that we can all agree that no-one comes out of this well. However I expect money to talk, especially in US courts, and no doubt a sacrificial lamb is being prepared. I doubt any of us will ever know the whole truth.

[JackyJoll]

I think that we can all agree that no-one comes out of this well.

Except possibly Smith and Wesson.

[Yorick]

I think that we can all agree that no-one comes out of this well. However I expect money to talk, especially in US courts, and no doubt a sacrificial lamb is being prepared. I doubt any of us will ever know the whole truth.

None of us know any truth now.

[Yambo]

Why was the gun allowed out if she wasn't present?

I know right. That is in fact the thrust of my argument. The whole scenario smacks of a cavalier attitude to gun safety from the entire production team.

I thought it happened in America.

You know, the land of guns, death by police guns, school shootings, more shootings in Chicago in one day than Europe sees in a week.

And you think it 'smacks of a cavalier attitude to gun safety?

[Screwdriver]

I thought it happened in America.

You know, the land of guns, death by police guns, school shootings, more shootings in Chicago in one day than Europe sees in a week.

And you think it 'smacks of a cavalier attitude to gun safety?

Well yes, especially in light of the situation as you describe it.

Gun crime is not the preserve of the middle class and although this is not the forum to discuss the overwhelming demographic bias, it should be fairly obvious that left wing liberal "luvvies" are typically under represented in gun crime. Except of course, this one.

Even "the best film of all time" Akira Kurosawa's masterpiece "Seven Samurai", the lead actor was not a trained swordsman. He wasn't even a martial artist. He merely "played" the part (albeit rather well!).

This small group of actors and movie workers in "Rust", a film about an accidental shooting, are indeed operating in an environment where guns are ubiquitous. It would appear the crew did not take gun safety seriously when, again in light of your observations AND the very topic of the film they were acting out, they really should have been a LOT more cautious.

[Noggin]

According to IMDB this was Hannah Gutierrez second job as an armourer https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10588398/?ref_=fn_al_nm_3 after stepping up from wardrobe.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10588398/?ref_=fn_al_nm_3

I'm not exactly Clint Eastwood myself, but does this look like a decent instructor?
It looks like the untrained teaching the blind.

If that's on her IMDB page, what are the chances it's a still from a film set up? I doubt she's put that on IMDB if it's to show how 'good' she is!!

[MrLongbeard]

I'm not exactly Clint Eastwood myself, but does this look like a decent instructor?
It looks like the untrained teaching the blind.

To be fair, the kid on the photo is 11 - 12, and that's how most kids pick up a gun the first time until they are taught how better to handle the weight

[MrLongbeard]

Nope it's just shite instruction, the kid has his/her finger on the trigger and you can tell the woman behind is looking along the gun at what she's shooting at, not telling her to stop and hold it properly, that's going to hurt her shoulder and she might even drop it.
There isn't a marksmanship principle within 10 miles of that decking.

It's a she.
And the trigger is to the rear and the hammer forward, so of course her finger is on it, it won't get pulled otherwise.

For all we know it's a dry fire 'exercise' after the kid has picked the (or any) gun up for the first time in her life.
I totally agree, if there's live rounds in the rifle then it's all gone to cock, but if it's a 'pick it up and get a feel for it (whilst empty) and we'll put you right in stages' exercise then as said, that's pretty much how all kids pick up a rifle for the first couple of go arounds.

Although, having a couple of boxes of ammo open on the table..............

The only thing we can know from the photo is that it was taken in the last 18 months

[Noggin]

TBF, I do wish someone decent had been around the first (and only) time I did clay pigeon shooting!! My shoulder hurt for weeks after that! And as a result, if I am ever handed a gun of any sort I'd ask a lot before I actually used it. But then, my bad experience didn't cause anyone else any major issues!!

[Yorick]

TBF, I do wish someone decent had been around the first (and only) time I did clay pigeon shooting!! My shoulder hurt for weeks after that! And as a result, if I am ever handed a gun of any sort I'd ask a lot before I actually used it. But then, my bad experience didn't cause anyone else any major issues!!

Oh God. Last thing we need is Noggers discussing guns.

[Mr. Dazzle]

if I am ever handed a gun of any sort I'd ask a lot before I actually used it.

Shouldn't that be the default for everyone?

[Noggin]

if I am ever handed a gun of any sort I'd ask a lot before I actually used it.

Shouldn't that be the default for everyone?

Not really. As I wrote, when I first fired a shotgun, I REALLY bruised my shoulder. Because I trusted the boyfriend I was with to tell me how to fire it safely (ok, I wasn't pointing it at people!! Clays are supposed to get shot).

So it depends who hands you the gun and what experience you have. If you trust the person handing it to you then maybe you wouldn't be so wary?

TBF, if you then had to point it at a person, then yes, much more care/wariness would be expected

But in my situation, I was about 19 and thought I'd be told if I was doing something wrong!! I wasn't, and they all fell about with laughter

[Noggin]

TBF, I do wish someone decent had been around the first (and only) time I did clay pigeon shooting!! My shoulder hurt for weeks after that! And as a result, if I am ever handed a gun of any sort I'd ask a lot before I actually used it. But then, my bad experience didn't cause anyone else any major issues!!

Oh God. Last thing we need is Noggers discussing guns.

Talking about them is fine. Wait till I join the hunt here and get to actually fire one!!