Stealth Omicron

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

See I would have thought the same. Then I read this
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... nhs-leader

Don't know if that's just midwives but suggests there must be a sizeable minority.

The psychology is interesting, the pitchforks are out for anyone not wearing a mask or being vaccinated, because the government said so.
The same government that a lot of people think are full of shit and are out to get them.

The statistics supporting the efficacy of double vaccination followed by boost vaccination speak for themselves, not "because the government said so".

That doesn't explain the vilification of people who choose not to have a vaccine by some people, do they feel similar hatred for other people who choose to take other health risks, such as fat people, smokers and motorcyclists?

[wheelnut]

That doesn't explain the vilification of people who choose not to have a vaccine by some people, do they feel similar hatred for other people who choose to take other health risks, such as fat people, smokers and motorcyclists?

It's not hatred, but I do have a modicum of frustration with the misinformation that is being circulated.

That said, the last thing I would want to see is forced vacinations. I think we need to put it down as one of the side-effects of living in a reasonably free society.

[Yambo]

That doesn't explain the vilification of people who choose not to have a vaccine by some people, do they feel similar hatred for other people who choose to take other health risks, such as fat people, smokers and motorcyclists?

It's the way it is nowadays, vote for Brexit you're a gammon racist; think there's only 2 sexes? You're transphobic; don't want a vaccine? You're a selfish arsehole destroying the NHS.

There'll be something else along soon that'll cause even more people to be villified.

[Dodgy69]

As I understand it, the higher population of vaccinated people, the better the chances of combatting emerging viruses so it should be a common interest for all.

When you ask an anti vax, why , their replies are usually pretty weak and based on belief, not science.

I am starting to believe though, that if this continues for another year or so, more and more will say bollox and just get on with life as before.

[DefTrap]

That doesn't explain the vilification of people who choose not to have a vaccine by some people, do they feel similar hatred for other people who choose to take other health risks, such as fat people, smokers and motorcyclists?

Probably some yes!

But it's not really the same deal.
(a) this is current
(b) its fixable
(c) it genuinely adversely impacts the rest of us, literally all of us - in a way that chubbies, gaspers and bikers don't - not really

The tide has turned with this I think. At the start when all we could do was obey the rules, "to protect the vulnerable" then that was fine. By and large the vulnerable are as protected as they're ever going to be now, unless they stay indoors forever or take out a subscription for a lifetime's worth of LF test kits. Staying in that state to protect the ignorant isn't the same thing at all. Some people won't be told - my SIL refused the vaccine on the basis of nonsense she read on face Facebook - then she got it and was hospitalised (fortunately not badly enough to be ICUd) and in the midst of that swore she would get vaccinated so as not to have a repeat performance. Of course now she believes she is immune and that surviving covid was the best course of action for her body, because it's fecking natural. She's family but really FFS why are the rest of us bothering now?

[Yorick]

In my life I've probably had 30 injections. Including letting doctors knock me out and paralyse me for hours.
Had no idea what was in them.

I'm not a parent, but I bet you've all let medical staff give your kids injections and various medicines.

[slowsider]

In my life I've probably had 30 injections. Including letting doctors knock me out and paralyse me for hours.
Had no idea what was in them.

I'm not a parent, but I bet you've all let medical staff give your kids injections and various medicines.

Sadly the incidence of measles (and others?) is increasing because people are not doing so

[DefTrap]

I'm ok with "I don't want to be injected with something that's come out of a test tube" - now I know that doesn't make sense, but then neither does drinking alcohol, overeating or riding motorcycles.

I don't know whether the vaccine is saving me or killing me, I didn't know if there were WMDs in Iraq, but I shrugged and accepted what I was told and went along with it, because it kind of seemed like it made sense at the time.

Oh come on. What is this? Devil's Advocaat time?

Vaccines are saving you, that's a fact. There's literally zero evidence to the contrary. They're tested as normal. There's no nanobots. There's no microchips. There's no conspiracy. There's a tiny incidence of low-level side effects but no more than there are with pretty much any other vaccine that folk willingly take as routine from birth.

Not knowing is fine - that's why we have experts in their field who are qualified to, within reason. It's the fault of massive bellends like Trump telling us that everything is a lie (apart from what he says), that we should question everything (even when not qualified or bright enough to ask even reasonably sentient questions) and accept bullshit dressed up as "irrefutable proof" from internet morons because "it helps the sheep to see the other side". No, it really doesn't, it takes up valuable airtime and an unreasonable amount of headspace in the dim.

Is it "the same" as WMDs? Not really - the facts on that are there if you want to engage with them, put away any bias, and stop auto-jerkoff-ing into the face of "it's all Tony Bliars fault".

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

How does someone else being vaccinated benefit other people, they still catch and carry the virus, the vaccine prevents them getting as ill as they would have done without the virus, if you're worried about over loading the NHS I suspect there are more people in hospital with drink or smoking related problems than there are with Covid related problems, should people who smoke or drink be bullied into stopping?

But my argument isn't really about vaccination, it's about bullying people into doing something they don't want to under the premise of "it's for the good of everyone", I think Britain is at the start of a slippery slope to losing personal freedoms - and it's not being done by the Government but by people on Social Media, unfortunately we currently have a Prime Minister who thinks positive media opinion is what's required to keep being Prime Minister.

Please pass the Bacofoil, I've got a hat to make.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

On the subject of peoples actions affecting other people I'd like to thank the UK taxpayers for paying for 30 years of treatment and benefits (including paying for all housing, heating, food and drink) for my father who was dysfunctional from the age of 45 thanks to a combination of alcoholism and addiction to Codamol (the NHS doctor who prescribed it knew my father was an alcholic btw), the £19000 inheritance that was 6 months benefits that he hadn't spent was especially nice as me and my sister shared it between us.

[irie]

Yep, simple devils advocate stuff - you think you know what you know, but you don't really, you just know what you're told, and sometimes you're told lies or misinformation. It's how you control people and where necessary mobilise whole countries against another country or race.

All I'm saying is that I'm not sure I'm comfortable stringing people up for not having a vaccine, I've had one and I took the rest of the family along with me, so on the balance of probability I've taken a punt on it, but I've been alive long enough to know that some things turn out to be wrong, or even plain bollocks.

I think the key point is that when people voluntarily refuse vaccination they are accepting that they could well be stringing up themselves (and indirectly others, of course). So they have to face the consequences of their actions in the same way that the obese, drinkers, motorcyclists and so on must do

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I think the key point is that when people voluntarily refuse vaccination they are accepting that they could well be stringing up themselves (and indirectly others, of course). So they have to face the consequences of their actions in the same way that the obese, drinkers, motorcyclists and so on must do

What do you think those consequences should be, I don't think with holding treatment is viable unless you're going to do it for any avoidable injury or illness.

[wheelnut]

Yep, simple devils advocate stuff - you think you know what you know, but you don't really, you just know what you're told, and sometimes you're told lies or misinformation. It's how you control people and where necessary mobilise whole countries against another country or race.

https://www.nejm.org/
https://www.bmj.com/
https://www.thelancet.com/

Lies and misinformation?

[Supermofo]

The tide has turned with this I think. At the start when all we could do was obey the rules,

Yup last lockdown I didn't see my folks for best part of 6 months. On the 27th I'm supposed to be seeing them and my 2 brothers and their families. And regardless of what happens I will be. My folks, me, my brothers and their wives are all triple jabbed, my Mrs is double jabbed and had Covid 2 weeks ago so hasn't had the 3rd yet. Of the others (kids) 4 have had Covid as well in the last 2 months. So bollocks to the rules I'm going.

Sure I won't be visiting a packed pub anytime soon rules or not but I will be seeing my folks. I've followed the rules I've seen to protect myself and mine as much as possible but now I'll be seeing my family. I don't regret following the rules last year I think it was the right thing to do but I'll be making my own mind up as to what risks I take seeing family/close friends now. Bit like the Government have all along. I think that ship has sailed.

[Mr. Dazzle]

should people who smoke or drink be bullied into stopping?

What we need, it would seem, is a way to tax not being vaccinated.

[irie]

I think the key point is that when people voluntarily refuse vaccination they are accepting that they could well be stringing up themselves (and indirectly others, of course). So they have to face the consequences of their actions in the same way that the obese, drinkers, motorcyclists and so on must do

What do you think those consequences should be, I don't think with holding treatment is viable unless you're going to do it for any avoidable injury or illness.

NHS treatment is (and always was) rationed which is effectively withholding treatment from some in order to treat others. Controversial perhaps, but I do think that in the current circumstances priority should be given to treating the vaccinated.

[Dodgy69]

Do we know the average age of an anti vaxxer. ? They did say it affects the elderly and vunerable harder, maybe this was a mistake to say out loud.

[Horse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-59697807

South African scientists - hailed for their discovery of Omicron - are investigating the "highly plausible hypothesis" that the emergence of new Covid-19 variants could be linked, in some cases, to mutations taking place inside infected people whose immune systems have already been weakened by other factors, including, though not limited to, untreated HIV.

Two cases of particular interest have now been detected in South African hospitals. One woman continued to test positive for Covid-19 for almost eight months, earlier this year, while the virus underwent more than 30 genetic shifts.

Professor Tulio de Oliveira, who leads the team that confirmed the discovery of Omicron, noted that "10 to 15" similar cases had been found in other parts of the world, including the UK.

"It's a very rare event. But it is a plausible explanation that individuals that are immuno-suppressed… can basically be a source of virus evolution," he said.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Does that mean we can go back to hating gays like we did in the 1980s?

[weeksy]

Does that mean we can go back to hating gays like we did in the 1980s?

Oi. No. Not having that here.