Stealth Omicron

[weeksy]

PS - Sorry to be tiresome.

Like Irie you're becoming tiresome

Maybe you're not to others

[Jody]

Like a lot of rules, the rules around this can be picked apart if you're looking for an excuse to ignore them.
If however you find wearing a mask really is not that big of a deal and like myself you've enjoyed not having a cough, sore throat or cold for nearly 2 years the rules are fine !

Over here (France) I'm asked to wear a mask in my apartment building corridors, lift etc, so I do.
We're supposed to be scanned into every pub/ restaurant.
I've been to 3 pubs,
one I only went in to get my drink then sat outside, wasn't scanned.
One was an opening party, very much inside. Scanned on arrival, no-one in the bar including staff wearing masks and
the last pub, not scanned, all inside, staff only wearing masks.

I really enjoy a bit of Apres but I think I'll be doing less this year judging from what I've seen so far !

[irie]

On the subject of the latest report that one person has died either with or from Omicron.

"Have they had booster? Are they elderly?
...
There are all sorts of nuances to this thing, and we're not being given proper information.
...
The average age of death of Covid is 82.5 so a lot of 82-year-old people die in a year, at any one time.
...
No details have been released, I suspect it's just some old boy that's tested positive, he may have died in his sleep or with a heart attack, who knows?

It is unnecessarily alarming.
...
I suspect that it's a death, which is unfortunate, but is due to something else, and it just happens to be Covid positive that's why they're not making a big noise  about them being vaccinated or not."

Karol Sikora: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Sikora

[Count Steer]

I think there is a general lack of knowledge in what other countries are doing, several on here believe that all countries have the same rules, but from what I understand most of the European countries have a better approach, e.g. what Yorick said, pubs can stay open but people must be seated and distanced if they wish to remove the masks, same in the UAE.

The UK seems to be the only place, that I have anything to do with, that has designated pubs as covid free zones and you can do whatever you want.
I don't think it's about science, I think it's more about being afraid to upset the public at Christmas, but criticism of this seems to be labelled as trolling on here

Didn't really think it was trolling, just that you undermined your point about the clear issue about pubs v shops by saying that, thinking that the rules were illogical/inconsistent, you went into crowded ones and implied that was the logical thing to do. The point sort of got lost. I couldn't work out if you thought the rules were wrong for shops or pubs, but, on the basis of your pub going, inclined towards shops. It only became clear later, up there ^.

[Mussels]

I don't think the EU is a good place to look for pandemic best practices.
Scotland has had tougher rules than England but I haven't seen anything to indicate it has helped them, so either most Scots think they are Mel Gibson sticking it to the man with indoor parties or the stricter rules make little difference.

[Supermofo]

I think there is a general lack of knowledge in what other countries are doing, several on here believe that all countries have the same rules, but from what I understand most of the European countries have a better approach, e.g. what Yorick said, pubs can stay open but people must be seated and distanced if they wish to remove the masks, same in the UAE.

I think it's less a lack of knowledge rather that most of us don't care what other countries are doing.

An example. My SIL lives in Spain and on the Mrs Facebook her page is full of expats moaning about how bad Brits are and how stupid our rules are whilst saying how much better the Spanish are. So our recent covid experience was eye opening.

The Mrs went over for her nephews 2nd birthday party for a short weekend. When she arrived everyone in the house had 'colds'. Now bearing in mind when the SIL came over we all did LFT's before they got here same as we do when we have visitors, so Mrs is assuming the same from them. Come Sat and it's the party. Mrs said a good hour was spent with all the Ex-pats saying how bad the Brits are not wearing masks etc. The funny thing was they all arrived in masks but once in the bar they all came off and everyone was mixing for the whole afternoon maskless and no masks in the bar at all.

Fast forward to the Monday when the Mrs is home and we get a call to say my BIL has covid. Which they can't understand as he is double jabbed It then turns out he was ill since the Thursday but didn't do a test as he is double jabbed and therefore can't get it!! They then spend ages ignoring the fact they passed it to my Mrs and daughter, or the fact they were mincing about a bar maskless very probably with covid whilst railing against the several mates they had at the party who haven't had a jab who they think they got it off, but were obviously not that miffed as they were mixing with them freely maskless. SIL moves out of BIL room but sleeps in the spare bed my Mrs and daughter were in...without washing the sheets

3 days later BIL goes for PCR and confirms the covid cos he can't be arsed to find a place and wasn't sure where to go. They wait for his positive before my SIL gets a test. Only she can't get a test cos it's a Bank Holiday in Spain and the test centres are shut for 2 days. They are then asking us how long they should isolate for

They are coming back to the UK for Xmas so need to do tests but now aren't sure if they'll show positive as they'll have had it within a few weeks. And so there is now vague talk of the various dodges their ex-pat mates have used to get into the UK without testing properly

It's only one instance and I'd suggest not the best example. But from a steady stream of the UK is crap merchants I can't say I'm impressed. Either the Spainsh rules aren't working or people are bending them as much as they are here when it suits. The 70 Med staff in Malaga hospital who got covid at a party might be in the same boat too.

So back to the UK and our rules. Do I think they are good? Dunno I'm doing what I think is best and until the Mrs went to Spain we'd avoided Covid. In my view the UK is trying to tread a line between the economy and safety. In doing that they have some pretty stupid rules but from what I'm seeing people are clever enough to know what's sensible and what's a risk. Those wanting to take the risks are. Does that mean some people can act as they want and get pissed up in packed pubs. Yes it does and that's not good IMO but that's life and I'm dealing with what I've got.

So what about other countries and their rules? I don't have an opinion as I don't live there. From what I've read some are better, some are worse. But they have no impact on me here...other than when those other countries with better rules are where my family gets covid from obviously.

So maybe there are twats everywhere

[Felix]

I don't think the EU is a good place to look for pandemic best practices.
Scotland has had tougher rules than England but I haven't seen anything to indicate it has helped them, so either most Scots think they are Mel Gibson sticking it to the man with indoor parties or the stricter rules make little difference.

From October. Looks like the Welsh are the filthy ones

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/196 ... e-rest-uk/

[wheelnut]

Judging by experience of Omicron in South Africa where it was first reported, the government's response to the Omicron threat is completely over the top. Furthermore it is likely to prove counter productive.

By all accounts Omicron is a mild disease which is far more infectious thus out competing Delta, but in contrast to Delta rarely requires hospitalisation and even more rarely death, especially of the vaccinated. As they do now with Delta the unvaccinated will have to take their chances with Omicron.

Given that Covid will keep on circulating for the foreseeable future it is desirable that Omicron should replace Delta.

You're right, if Omicron is a lot milder than Delta it may be a good thing that it outperforms Delta, but it's still a big if. There simply isnt enough data yet.

One things for sure though, we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

Bear in mind that even if it's half as virulant, four times the cases will soon stack up. The numbers are always against us with covid.

[DefTrap]

An example. My SIL lives in Spain and on the Mrs Facebook her page is full of expats moaning about how bad Brits are and how stupid our rules are whilst saying how much better the Spanish are.

That's just groups of expats for you - avoid them like the plague. I can't understand it - half of them seem to be running away from something in the UK, these are the worst ones, they're never happy and they have an unlimited rose-tinted monologue about how they escaped from the UK because it used to be great and now it is shit. Most of the rest are trying are just railing about the forrin ways in their new country of residence, a close second in the boring stakes, but more amusing watching them bumble and fight against the system. I dunno why they can't all just enjoy it.

As for the covid rules - there's different problems to overcome, it's not a one size fits all issue

[Supermofo]

An example. My SIL lives in Spain and on the Mrs Facebook her page is full of expats moaning about how bad Brits are and how stupid our rules are whilst saying how much better the Spanish are.

That's just groups of expats for you - avoid them like the plague. I can't understand it - half of them seem to be running away from something in the UK, these are the worst ones, they're never happy and they have an unlimited rose-tinted monologue about how they escaped from the UK because it used to be great and now it is shit. Most of the rest are trying are just railing about the forrin ways in their new country of residence, a close second in the boring stakes, but more amusing watching them bumble and fight against the system. I dunno why they can't all just enjoy it.

Absolutely. Been there 6 years still can't speak Spanish so have to get translators for hospital etc. They have a 2 year old now. I was asking what they'd do if they had to home school in the future like we did or if there was a medical emergency with their son. Just get blank looks Like prison communities without the walls.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I do wonder why people who've made an arse of their life in the UK think they'll make less of an arse of their lives abroad, twats are twats in any location.

[DefTrap]

I do wonder why people who've made an arse of their life in the UK think they'll make less of an arse of their lives abroad, twats are twats in any location.

You'd be amazed how many twats THEY find whichever country they end up in. A couple insisted on telling me how they were "forced out of Portugal" and were now "desperately trying to find a country that would welcome them". Then they gave me all the reasons that France didn't suit them either.

[Mr Moofo]

I do wonder why people who've made an arse of their life in the UK think they'll make less of an arse of their lives abroad, twats are twats in any location.

You'd be amazed how many twats THEY find whichever country they end up in. A couple insisted on telling me how they were "forced out of Portugal" and were now "desperately trying to find a country that would welcome them". Then they gave me all the reasons that France didn't suit them either.

Ex-pats do seem to have really odd tribes in them - the broken relationship / divorced/ unlucky in love tribe, the "come her to make loads of money" tribe, the "came here to make loads of money and it didn't work out buy my expensive English imported cheese" tribe, the potentially crim on the run tribe, the yummy mummy , "living the dream tribe", the moan about everything British tribe, the moan about everything foreign time, and the complete nutters.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The few I had dealings with in Portugal in the 90s all seemed to be Del Boy types, they were twats.

[irie]

Judging by experience of Omicron in South Africa where it was first reported, the government's response to the Omicron threat is completely over the top. Furthermore it is likely to prove counter productive.

By all accounts Omicron is a mild disease which is far more infectious thus out competing Delta, but in contrast to Delta rarely requires hospitalisation and even more rarely death, especially of the vaccinated. As they do now with Delta the unvaccinated will have to take their chances with Omicron.

Given that Covid will keep on circulating for the foreseeable future it is desirable that Omicron should replace Delta.

You're right, if Omicron is a lot milder than Delta it may be a good thing that it outperforms Delta, but it's still a big if. There simply isnt enough data yet.

One things for sure though, we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

Bear in mind that even if it's half as virulant, four times the cases will soon stack up. The numbers are always against us with covid.

Problem is that if this approach is taken every time there are new variants, as there are sure to be frequently in the future, the collateral damage to the economy and the nation's health will be catastrophic. The current backlog in non-Covid treatments is staggering, we simply can not go on like this, something will have to give.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-wai ... ys-1312074

NHS waiting list backlog likely to pass 6 million by New Year, Sajid Javid says
Hospitals are under an “unprecedented degree of pressure” even before the traditional winter peak in January, the head of NHS Providers has warned.
...

https://www.nationalhealthexecutive.com ... -diagnosis

Covid causes a rise in late cancer diagnosis
Recent analysis by Macmillan has suggested that around 50,000 patients have missed a cancer diagnosis during the pandemic.

The research has shown that women being diagnosed with stage four breast cancer has increased by 48% over the last few months which the charity say is down to COVID 19 disruption to NHS care.
...

Edit: for breast cancer alone this is what those missed diagnosis mean:

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about- ... r/survival

Survival by stage
No UK-wide statistics are available for different stages of breast cancer or individual treatments. These figures are for survival by stage for women in England, five years after diagnosis. These are from women diagnosed between 2013 and 2017 and followed up to 2018.

Stage 1
Most women (around 98%) will survive their cancer for 5 years or more after diagnosis.

Stage 2
Around 90 out of 100 women (around 90%) will survive their cancer for 5 years or more after diagnosis.

Stage 3
More than 70 out of 100 women (more than 70%) will survive their cancer for 5 years or more after diagnosis.

Stage 4
Around 25 out of 100 women (around 25%) will survive their cancer for 5 years or more after they are diagnosed. The cancer is not curable at this point, but may be controlled with treatment for some years.

etc ...

[weeksy]

That's the stereotypical impression of expats that people like to imagine exists, and maybe they do in Spain and France, but IME that's not what expats I know are about. I

However you can accept that others have had different experiences to you and they may be correct for their experience and you wrong ?

[DefTrap]

That's the stereotypical impression of expats that people like to imagine exists, and maybe they do in Spain and France, but IME that's not what expats I know are about.

Ah, oh dear.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

That's the stereotypical impression of expats that people like to imagine exists, and maybe they do in Spain and France, but IME that's not what expats I know are about. I

However you can accept that others have had different experiences to you and they may be correct for their experience and you wrong ?

Potter's experience of the UK is very different to mine, but I don't live in Stoke.

[DefTrap]

However you can accept that others have had different experiences to you and they may be correct for their experience and you wrong ?

He might be "one of them".

[Supermofo]

somewhere where you can't get a doctors appointment and crime is high, plus old people are not respected or catered for very well

My docs are pretty good, never had to wait long for an appointment in ages. At the moment the biggest problem is actually seeing one, but that's due to the covid rules not lack of GPs. When we've needed a doc in the last 18 months we get a call or video call with them fairly quickly. Including weekends.

Luckily not suffered any personal crime for....nope can't remember when. Probably my brother's Blade being stolen back in the early 2000's.

Old people care is why I'm shovelling money into my pension. It's not great but the alternative is higher tax.