Best steel/titanium framed MTB?

[weeksy]

Cotic or Stanton are the go-to for steel really. They're pretty, functional and sort of UK. Some of the frames are now Taiwan, but you can still get a UK one for a bit more.

[Beancounter]

The Ragley Blue Pig and Ragley Piglet are steel frame bikes, both retail at £1,999.

Blue Pig.jpg (1.67 MiB) Viewed 878 times

Piglet.jpg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 878 times

[Beancounter]

Just had a read about the Pig but apparently a criticism is the harsh ride for a steel frame, which is exactly what I'm looking to avoid.
Aluminium feels good on the trails because it's very stiff and feels very precise, but I find it tiresome if I'm on a long ride - although I'm at least ten years out of date on MTBs so maybe the latest aluminium framed bikes are better?

Must admit that I've only ever looked at pics of the Ragley bikes, never read the reviews, only because I've never been in the market for a hardtail.

Can't comment on aluminium frame MTBs as I've only ridden full sus for the last 7/8 years. If anything, I would have thought alloy frames would be stiffer now but I could be wrong.

[Saga Lout]

Just had a look at Cotic and they seem a bit pricey, my P7 is now ten years old, cost me about a grand back then and it's been ridden infrequently, but it's still all the MTB I'll ever need, so I was thinking a budget of around double that would be about as much as I want to throw at another bike that will sit in the spare room for 48 weeks of the year.

On that budget I think you can cross titanium off your list. You might find just the frame for £2000ish but not the whole bike.

[porter_jamie]

On one used to be the go to for a steel frame. Not sure jf they still make one.

[Mr Moofo]

Cotic have certainly premiumised their prices in the last few years. Some of their full suss stuff in made in the UK, in Scotland, but most of the rest come from Taiwan.
I was interested in buying a Ribble steel HT - 4 months ago they were 499 - which was around the Cotic / Blue Pig/ Pipedream Moxie etc. They have now put up the price to 799 GBP.
For that price everyone will buy a Bird Forge , not a Ribble.
There is also Stanton - which have a very good reputation, or of you want really sexy there is Curtis or BTR - which are more spendy.

I have had 1 Cotic BFe, 2x Cotic Solaris, 1 x Cotic Road Rat, 1 X Cotic Soul and I current have ( the BFe, The road rat, the Solaris frame in my attic) a Cotic FlareMax - so I am probably not the most unbiased to ask.
I was going to buy either the New Bfe or Bird Forge - but realised how much more comfortable for old bones a FS is. My hard tail is a Production Privee

https://production-privee.com

The answer, as always, is, what do you want to do with it?
If you want to hit bike parks and do enduro stuff on it look at the Forge, the BFe, the BTR Pinner , or the Pipedream Moxie. If you just want to ride around off road a bit - then a Solaris will be a good choice.

On-One / Planet X used to churn out frames at a stupid price - I paid 125 GBP for a steel 456 many years ago. Despite what everyone says, they were extremely competent frames.
However you are now looking at 500 quid plus for their steel stuff - which would mean I would go Cotic.

What is wrong with the P7?

[lostboy]

Basic On One does the job, but if you really start to push them they have their limits - I've bent the chainstays badly enough on stuff that should have been meat and drink for a decent frame.

After that I bought my Solaris frame from Moofo (he felt the XL was too big for him, it works a treat for me) and I absolutely love it. It's a cheap build (1x9, Shimano SLX mech, chain, cassette, Hope X2 brakes, chain ring/cranks/bars/stem from various bargain bins) but with a decent set of wheels and dropper post and I can ride it just about anywhere. Comfortable enough, eats up the miles and is light enough to chuck about a bit - and a very different feel (more responsive) to the On One.

[Ditchfinder]

CEN standards meant steel frames changed massively about 10 yrs ago. Pre CEN steel frames were all twangy and lovely, post CEN they were like riding scaffold pipes.

Modern hydroformed ally frames aren't anywhere near as harsh as they used to be and now everyone is running tubeless at lower pressures which helps too.

[hawker]

For me, the best is the Orange Vitamin T! Itreceived excellent reviews when firstreleased and I can back that up. ine handles besautifuly, feelsgood and withslick tyres makes an excelenton-rod bike as well! 10/10. But probably like hen'steethnowadays? A super ike though!
HTH?

[MingtheMerciless]

My Curtis is probably out of your price range but in the 30 odd years I've ridden MTB it is the finest handling bike I've had. The frame tubing is selected according to your weight and if I remember correctly its an 853 front triangle with Columbus steel rear triangle.

[weeksy]

More pics...

You'll get used to it

[weeksy]

Looks sweet. Trek do seem to like the Bontrager tyres, i wonder if there's joint ownership thing going on with them.

Seat doesn't look the nicest.... Try a Charge Spoon or Madison Flux. £20 roughly.

[Mr Moofo]

nothing wrong with that Orange for what you are doing

[lostboy]

Looks sweet. Trek do seem to like the Bontrager tyres, i wonder if there's joint ownership thing going on with them.

Seat doesn't look the nicest.... Try a Charge Spoon or Madison Flux. £20 roughly.

Bontrager is a wholly owned Trek subsidiary.

And Weeksy is right - try a few seats. The Spoon/Flux works for 80% of people (including me, I have the Spoon on all my MTBs and Road bikes) so is always a good starting point. Otherwise just get the shop to measure your sit bones (yes, really!) and match you to a seat.

[weeksy]

nothing wrong with that Orange for what you are doing

Agreed, I keep looking at newer and more fancy ones but I really like the P7, bought it new in 2009 and it needs the gear selectors servicing but other than that it's a brilliant bike.

Like anything else though, things do move on, this new Trek my lad has does feel like a much more modern and fresher bike, I have a feeling that something really nice would make the P7 feel a bit old.

Absolutely.... things move on and change... the P7 was ace in it's day, but so was an XR3i, doesn't mean you'd want one now... However i am a semi-bike-snob in MTB terms.

[Mr Moofo]

Looks sweet. Trek do seem to like the Bontrager tyres, i wonder if there's joint ownership thing going on with them.

Seat doesn't look the nicest.... Try a Charge Spoon or Madison Flux. £20 roughly.

Bontrager is a wholly owned Trek subsidiary.

And Weeksy is right - try a few seats. The Spoon/Flux works for 80% of people (including me, I have the Spoon on all my MTBs and Road bikes) so is always a good starting point. Otherwise just get the shop to measure your sit bones (yes, really!) and match you to a seat.

My arse hates Spoons!

[weeksy]

Looks sweet. Trek do seem to like the Bontrager tyres, i wonder if there's joint ownership thing going on with them.

Seat doesn't look the nicest.... Try a Charge Spoon or Madison Flux. £20 roughly.

Bontrager is a wholly owned Trek subsidiary.

And Weeksy is right - try a few seats. The Spoon/Flux works for 80% of people (including me, I have the Spoon on all my MTBs and Road bikes) so is always a good starting point. Otherwise just get the shop to measure your sit bones (yes, really!) and match you to a seat.

Mt arse hates Spoons!

I used and loved them for ages, but then i got a WTB Pure on a bike randomly, i then sold all 4 of my Charge Spoons, well, techincally i gave them away actually.

[Mr Moofo]

nothing wrong with that Orange for what you are doing

Like anything else though, things do move on, this new Trek my lad has does feel like a much more modern and fresher bike, I have a feeling that something really nice would make the P7 feel a bit old.

I have a mate who has been asking me for months about what MTB to buy - he wanted 29er, not esp steel etc. So I suggested Sonder, the new Boardman range FS are very good value for money, plus a huge range of other choices.
And he kept on going on about the Trek X-caliber. Anyway I gave him reasons why it could work , and some of its limitations ( Judy fork 100m travel etc, so it is a XC too with the geo to go with it etc.
I explained that there were other bikes that may give him a little bit more flexibility for what he told me he wanted to do.
So he bought the X-Calibler from the local shop because it had 10% off

The X callable is fine - but it isn't Gnarrfest HT - Its geo will be a little different to your P7 - you P7 has a HT angle of 69 degrees, and a slightly higher than modern trend BB, but unless you are going to be riding steeps in Morzine, that won't be a issue. The head angle could be sorted out with a -2 slack set to take it to 67 degree , which is there or there about on modern bikes.
TBH the Orange P7 still has relative modern geometry - its just not LLS
And it is very similar to the current Xcaliber.

Go and compare on Geometry Geeks

P7 GEOMETRY
Double-Butted Reynolds 631 Cro Mo Steel
Frame Size 15" 17" 19" 21"
A. Head Angle 69° 69° 69° 69°
B. Seat Angle 73° 73° 73° 73°
C. Top Tube 544 559 576 597
D. Effective TT 560 580 600 620
E. BB Height -35 -35 -35 -35
F. Chainstay 430 430 430 430
G. Head Tube 100 120 120 140
H. Wheelbase 1069 1090 1110 1131
Seat Tube Ø 27.2 27.2 27.2 27.2
Standover 697 742 781 821

[Mr Moofo]

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference or how it would help me, I'm not even an average MTB rider, I'm basically a bloke that rides one now and then along a track.

If it helps, I would rather ride your P7 than the Trek
Stick a slack set on the P7 , and to use Weekly speak, you will be golden ...

[Mr Moofo]

https://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/ ... eadset.htm
https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/20-de ... s-15-c.asp
https://canecreek.com/product/angleset/

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/slackset-a ... es.959891/