How bikes work

[dern]

This is a cool video on how bicycles, and therefore motorcycles, work in terms of steering and counter steering...

[Count Steer]

Counter steering? Never heard of it.

Spin and Hoss may be along shortly.

(Someone did a similar thing with a motorbike to prove that no amount of body shifting and 'peg weighting' will get a bike to deviate from a straight line. The steering was free to move but the rider was holding dummy bars).

[Mr. Dazzle]

He's obviously not weighting the pegs hard enough

[Yorick]

Rear wheel steering.

[wheelnut]

Counter steering? Never heard of it.

Spin and Hoss may be along shortly.

(Someone did a similar thing with a motorbike to prove that no amount of body shifting and 'peg weighting' will get a bike to deviate from a straight line. The steering was free to move but the rider was holding dummy bars).

It was Keith Code’s No BS (body steer) bike.

This isn’t the original vid - can’t find that one

[media] [/media]

[Horse]

Counter steering? Never heard of it.

Spin and Hoss may be along shortly.

Only if it's a straight line between there and here.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Counter steering? Never heard of it.

Spin and Hoss may be along shortly.

(Someone did a similar thing with a motorbike to prove that no amount of body shifting and 'peg weighting' will get a bike to deviate from a straight line. The steering was free to move but the rider was holding dummy bars).

Then how do unicycles steer?
Or bikes wheelieing for that matter?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Rear wheel steering.

You counter steer aggressively to initiate the turn with rear wheel steering on a dirt bike.

[Horse]

Rear wheel steering.

You counter steer aggressively to initiate the turn with rear wheel steering on a dirt bike.

I neglected to copy the details when it was on LinkedIn. Someone doing research on motorcycle chassis / handling / whatever contacted a US racer who explained that, when sliding the rear, directional control was still by countersteering.

[Horse]

Then how do unicycles steer?

Not watched the video, have you?

[Yorick]

Rear wheel steering.

You counter steer aggressively to initiate the turn with rear wheel steering on a dirt bike.

If you Spin the wheel enough, it will eventually break to one side. Then you're away

[Asian Boss]

Don't worry about all that counter steering bollocks, just gan it up on t'back wheel.

[Couchy]

What I’ve always found odd is these days is instructors are obsessed with counter steering so much so it’s like you can’t learn without knowing about it.Yes we all do it as physics dictates it’s needed but I’d never heard it mentioned until some time in the early 2000’s, by then I’d been riding nearly 25 years Road, off-road and track. I still never deliberately do it turning into corners but I do use it to sit the bike up on corner exit on track, not really a technique needed on the road though as you shouldn’t be on the gas that hard

[weeksy]

What I’ve always found odd is these days is instructors are obsessed with counter steering so much so it’s like you can’t learn without knowing about it.Yes we all do it as physics dictates it’s needed but I’d never heard it mentioned until some time in the early 2000’s, by then I’d been riding nearly 25 years Road, off-road and track. I still never deliberately do it turning into corners but I do use it to sit the bike up on corner exit on track.

@Couchy Do you do it on MTBs. ? I'm curious as i'm trying to work on it in terms of technique on the MTB and push the inside bar harder in corners.

[Couchy]

What I’ve always found odd is these days is instructors are obsessed with counter steering so much so it’s like you can’t learn without knowing about it.Yes we all do it as physics dictates it’s needed but I’d never heard it mentioned until some time in the early 2000’s, by then I’d been riding nearly 25 years Road, off-road and track. I still never deliberately do it turning into corners but I do use it to sit the bike up on corner exit on track.

@Couchy Do you do it on MTBs. ? I'm curious as i'm trying to work on it in terms of technique on the MTB and push the inside bar harder in corners.

Nope not deliberately, but I do lean on inside bar in a corner same as on a motorbike, it’s not a deliberate push at start of corner though and it’s only a gentle weighting.
Tbh the most fun is exiting a corner on track on a big bike, running to outside of track a hard push on the outside bar as you grab the brittle sits the bike upright very quick onto the fat part of the tyre....I miss that not having a fast. Ike or doing much track time

[KungFooBob]

It's all just magic.

That's all you need to know.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's all just magic.

That's all you need to know.

You're thinking of helicopters.

[Horse]

It's all just magic.

That's all you need to know.

You're thinking of helicopters.

And bees.

Or is it dragons?

[Horse]

What I’ve always found odd is these days is instructors are obsessed with counter steering so much so it’s like you can’t learn without knowing about it.Yes we all do it as physics dictates it’s needed but I’d never heard it mentioned until some time in the early 2000’s, by then I’d been riding nearly 25 years Road, off-road and track. I still never deliberately do it turning into corners but I do use it to sit the bike up on corner exit on track, not really a technique needed on the road though as you shouldn’t be on the gas that hard

Your timescale is good for this.

Historically, almost all rider training in the UK has been based on police techniques and ex-police riders had the influence, whether L or advanced.

The old format police manual (superseded in 1996) didn't mention it at all. DSA as was didn't agree with it even being mentioned.

All that had to change in 2010 when the Mod 1 test, with the 'swerve' exercise, was introduced.

From my perspective, I want people to:
- be aware of it (many were not when I was more active in training up, to 2008). Many of those were car drivers, for them it was totally counter intuitive.
- know a simple method: press left, go left; press harder steer quicker; press more lean more; release the pressure when you have enough lean.
- be consistent. For those non-intuitive riders, if they're not then they won't use it when they need to (swerving, changing line in a bend, etc.).

FWIW the UK's omission of steering is unusual. At an event I attended there were demos by French, Dutch, US and German (or Austrian) instructors of their own steering training. That was in 1995.

Re MTB. We had a back to biking trainee, years ago, who came back after specifically to tell us how it had improved his cycling. IIRC he did some sort of downhill racing.

[Rockburner]

IIRC I heard about counter-steering from police riders (family friends) when I was learning .... So about 1990-ish.

I don't know if they were taught it, or were just aware of it from previous experience, (bikers first, then coppers).

It may also be that my father (raced in the 50s/60s) knew about it as my memory is that he was aware of counter-steering too, but not as an "official" thing, just something faster riders did so you copied them.