Will the Chinese/Indonesian/Asian/Indian bikes ever take over ?

[Skub]

If its made in Japan, its Japanese, if its made in Mexico its Mexican.

Or maybe it's like Fender guitars?

Some are made in Mexico by Mexican workers,they are Mexican guitars.

Some are made in the USA by Mexican workers,they are USA guitars.

[weeksy]

It amazes me that so few people are concerned about the CCP and their plans for world domination. They have been at it successfully now for almost 40 years and even have a foothold in the Whitehouse with the Biden mafia.

The only saving grace is the former "one child policy" which has carved the hole in their population they are suffering from currently. We all knew at the time that this "one child" was going to be a boy and a suspicious skew in the "birth rate" of girls is more accurately a suspicious skew in their survival rate. This authoritarian dictatorship has now decreed a three child policy...

Despite being totally evil, they are not stupid and have invested heavily in the worlds resources. So much so that even if you want to "compete" with the CCP you're probably going to have to buy your raw materials from them, including all the worlds rare earth resources needed for battery production for example. Damned clever those Chinese.

Yes but it doesn't really answer the question as such.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I've got a friend who's a Chinese citizen, she lives in the UK, she doesn't strike me as totally evil, when I go into work tomorrow, I'm going to keep my eye on my Chinese colleague, to see what evil things he's getting up to.

[KungFooBob]

I work with a guy who has recently moved here from Hong Kong, taking advantage of the British visa scheme. He reckons China is evil.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Actually my colleague is from Hong Kong, but he's definitely Chinese, now I don't know if he's evil or good.

[Screwdriver]

I've got a friend who's a Chinese citizen, she lives in the UK, she doesn't strike me as totally evil, when I go into work tomorrow, I'm going to keep my eye on my Chinese colleague, to see what evil things he's getting up to.

People are just people, good and bad in all of us.

The CCP is an evil, authoritarian, dictatorship. Loyal party members are rewarded with sexual favours, disloyal ones are executed. The civilian population are entirely disposable. There are tales of entire towns being washed away deliberately when dams are opened "for the greater good".

And @weeksy, to answer the question, on their current trajectory, yes, they will "take over". The only question being how to define when that has occurred, assuming it hasn't already happened.

The only good thing to come out of China is "tang ping". A philosophy which sadly, I do subscribe to currently.

[Bigjawa]

One of my Jap bikes is Indian, and another is French.

I've had Japanese bikes from Brazil, Italy and Thailand.

[weeksy]

I've got a friend who's a Chinese citizen, she lives in the UK, she doesn't strike me as totally evil, when I go into work tomorrow, I'm going to keep my eye on my Chinese colleague, to see what evil things he's getting up to.

People are just people, good and bad in all of us.

The CCP is an evil, authoritarian, dictatorship. Loyal party members are rewarded with sexual favours, disloyal ones are executed. The civilian population are entirely disposable. There are tales of entire towns being washed away deliberately when dams are opened "for the greater good".

And @weeksy, to answer the question, on their current trajectory, yes, they will "take over". The only question being how to define when that has occurred, assuming it hasn't already happened.

The only good thing to come out of China is "tang ping". A philosophy which sadly, I do subscribe to currently.

Go on, I'll play.

Elaborate on how it can have happened already?

Yamaha won all 3 majors this year, so clearly not in a racing context. As shown above none of the Chinese bikes are the biggest sellers,so what are we missing from your implications?

[The Spin Doctor]

And first models allegedly copied from Kawasakis.

If I recall, they got significant technical support from Kawasaki.

[Bustaspoke]

And first models allegedly copied from Kawasakis.

If I recall, they got significant technical support from Kawasaki.

I'm sure they used Nippon Denso electrical components manufactured for Yamaha's & had to scrub off the Yamaha wording on the lens's

[Screwdriver]

The only question being how to define when that has occurred, assuming it hasn't already happened.

Go on, I'll play.

Elaborate on how it can have happened already?

So err, you're asking me to explain how can it have happened already when I overtly state I am assuming it hasn't?

The phraseology is intended to highlight my opinion that the "it" in question is inevitable. Let me ask you then; who can stop China?

Bit like climate change; we are assuming the long term future can be influenced by actions taken now when (again in my opinion) it is already too late and the writing is on the wall.

In both cases, you might argue, that is "The Great Wall"...

[Bigjawa]

The only question being how to define when that has occurred, assuming it hasn't already happened.

Go on, I'll play.

Elaborate on how it can have happened already?

So err, you're asking me to explain how can it have happened already when I overtly state I am assuming it hasn't?

The phraseology is intended to highlight my opinion that the "it" in question is inevitable. Let me ask you then; who can stop China?

Bit like climate change; we are assuming the long term future can be influenced by actions taken now when (again in my opinion) it is already too late and the writing is on the wall.

In both cases, you might argue, that is "The Great Wall"...

In theory, the West can stop China if it gave up it's desire for cheap consumer items, the problem is, they need all the shit they can buy off Ali Express.

[Druid]

A related question, do you feel that buying a Triumph is patriotic (if you're British) and if so why, when it's made in Thailand?

No. I don't buy bikes to show how patriotic I am, I buy bikes I want to ride.

My last few bikes have been Triumph, Ducati, MV Agusta, Aprillia, Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph, Honda so no particular national bias.

As for the OP, I don't know if Chinese/Indonesian/Asian/Indian bikes will ever "take over" in first world markets. It might just be more profitable for them to supply sub 250cc bikes to the huge markets in the developing countries in Africa, Asia and South America where price and ease of maintenance are more important than performance and advanced technology

[Asian Boss]

The CRF125 I have is not made in Japan but it's still a quality thing.

Back when I were on t'tools in a dealership (late 90s) they sold SIamotos as well as the big four Japanese brands. The Siamotos were poor quality. I suspect these non Japanese Asian brands still have a long way to come to match the Js.

[Yorick]

I bet nobody else has a Portuguese bike

[Bigjawa]

The CRF125 I have is not made in Japan but it's still a quality thing.

Back when I were on t'tools in a dealership (late 90s) they sold SIamotos as well as the big four Japanese brands. The Siamotos were poor quality. I suspect these non Japanese Asian brands still have a long way to come to match the Js.

Keeway and Lexmoto are half decent.

People laughed at non Japanese cars, l remember when Hyundai were looked upon as cheap and nasty, now they are everywhere.

I remember when I was working in a local backstreet bike shop, we got 3 month old Jialing CG clone in that had literally destroyed every moving part in the engine. The dealer couldn't get parts so have it to us to resurrect. We ended up buying a ropey CG, taking the engine out, painting it with silver VHT and putting that in.

[mangocrazy]

I can understand the analogy of how the Japanese entered the UK market and within 10-15 years dominated it, and then applying it to what China is doing, but to do so is to miss major differences in the trade environment then and now. In the late 50s and 60s the British motorcycle industry was coasting along on former glories, with virtually no R&D, clapped out tooling and machinery and a product line that hadn't changed much for 20 years. It was ripe to be targetted.

Japan had seen most of its infrastructure flattened in WW2 and was being given aid subsidies by the West to restart its manufacturing sector. The Japanese took that aid and basically used it to compete with and beat the products being made in the UK (and US).

The situation today is very different. Every major manufacturer has to invest in R&D or they're dead meat. Globalisation means that production tends to happen in lowest cost locations (obviously including China), commensurate with a certain level of quality being maintained. The only cost differentiator indigenous Chinese manufacturers have is the fact that when they design, produce, export and sell their own product they can keep the cost lower than manufacturers who design elsewhere but produce stuff in China. Basically the markup that Chinese firms charge to produce stuff for non-Chinese manufacturers is eliminated from the bottom line.

So yes, they will always have a cost advantage, but whether they become the dominant force depends on the quality of their design teams and whether they can anticipate and please Western tastes. And as production becomes ever more automated the advantage China has of cheap labour should be reduced. Where they excel of course is at the low end, where they can churn out commuter and learner fodder at unmatchable prices, much like the Japanese did in the 50s/60s.

Whether they will have the same success in the larger classes is moot. I really can't imagine buyers of Japanese and Italian metal being seduced by Chinese knock-offs, even if they are much cheaper.

But if the Chinese start entering WSBK and MotoGP in the way Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki did in the 60s, then all bets are off.

[Rockburner]

I don't buy any of that 'heritage' bllx from Triumph.They should be called BLOOR'S
The only thing they have in common with the Meriden bikes is the name on certain models

And first models allegedly copied from Kawasakis.

Nothing alleged about it . Triumph at the time freely admitted they'd visited the KHI factories and made copious notes.

[Horse]

I don't buy any of that 'heritage' bllx from Triumph.They should be called BLOOR'S
The only thing they have in common with the Meriden bikes is the name on certain models

And first models allegedly copied from Kawasakis.

Nothing alleged about it . Triumph at the time freely admitted they'd visited the KHI factories and made copious notes.

I was relying on memories of stories that they'd bought variius bikes and stripped them down, then decided that Kawasaki was the one to copy, to exceed.

[Wscad]

I think the Chinese are looking long term at electric bikes/ scooters. Many big Chinese city’s have banned petrol powered scooters and bikes. 20 years from now, Europe/ Uk will be full of Chinese electric scoots. That’s my prediction