Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

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DW.
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by DW. »

weeksy wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:11 pm We deffo need more drunken posting!

Where's @DW. when you need him?
What makes yooou fink I'd beee da one drinkiiiings?
Been absent for a week. Busier than a lizard drinkin.
Farkin big change over at work last week + a big bastard 3 day long stocktake. Old owners have sold out and new owners are just all share holders and made me head nigger.
Oh, maybe that's not the right terminology.
"Manager" that's the word I'm looking for. So I haven't read what this threads all about.
What are we supposed to be talking about?
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weeksy
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by weeksy »

DW. wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:29 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:11 pm We deffo need more drunken posting!

Where's @DW. when you need him?
What makes yooou fink I'd beee da one drinkiiiings?
Been absent for a week. Busier than a lizard drinkin.
Farkin big change over at work last week + a big bastard 3 day long stocktake. Old owners have sold out and new owners are just all share holders and made me head nigger.
Oh, maybe that's not the right terminology.
"Manager" that's the word I'm looking for. So I haven't read what this threads all about.
What are we supposed to be talking about?
It's the internet, doesn't matter what we start on, it always moves off topic :)

This one was just about suspension though to begin with but then went away from there :)
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by DW. »

weeksy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:30 am
DW. wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:29 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:11 pm We deffo need more drunken posting!

Where's @DW. when you need him?
What makes yooou fink I'd beee da one drinkiiiings?
Been absent for a week. Busier than a lizard drinkin.
Farkin big change over at work last week + a big bastard 3 day long stocktake. Old owners have sold out and new owners are just all share holders and made me head nigger.
Oh, maybe that's not the right terminology.
"Manager" that's the word I'm looking for. So I haven't read what this threads all about.
What are we supposed to be talking about?
It's the internet, doesn't matter what we start on, it always moves off topic :)

This one was just about suspension though to begin with but then went away from there :)
True. Definitely go off topic a bit.
I will put my 2 bob in and say that most c-nts that fuck around spend copious amounts on their suspension can't ride for shit anyways.
I've seen a guy on the mx track overtaking late model chook chasers on a dirty twin shocker.
Most bikes of these days have quite adequate suspension on them. A little fine tuning and it's heaps good enough.
Except Harley. Like old mate mentioned a few posts back. Harley don't really have any suspension. Maybe as well just weld them up. Can't ride the farkin things around a corner anyway.
They give them such cool names like street glide, soft tail, road glide, road king. Pretty false advertising really, they should bring out a model called "corner fucked"
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by mangocrazy »

I'm definitely a bit precious about suspension. Mostly I object to over-firm suspension that rattles yer teeth and kicks you out of the saddle which, to be fair, is mainly an Italian bike trait. Two Ducatis (851 and 888SP3) and two Aprilia Falcos all needed to have the springing and damping softened to my tastes and (in the case of the 851 and Falcos) the OE shock junked and something decent bolted in its place. All 4 Italians had fork spring rates that were verging on road-drill ride quality and benefitted greatly from having progressive springs installed. And I know that progressive springs are supposed to be the work of the devil by many 'experts', but I really don't care and they work for me.

At the other end of the scale are the Japanese and in particular, Honda. Every stock Honda I've ever ridden has over-soft spring rates front and rear and soggy, inadequate damping. The only exception was a 929 Fireblade that was being prepped for the TT and I helped with running in duties. There was nothing much wrong with the suspenders on that bike. My TL1000S was a suspension-fiddler's dream - front forks that were harsh and soggy at the same time and the infamous 'door-closer' rear unit that was rock hard when cold, but faded like a bastard when hot. A revalve and re-spring at the front and an Ohlins at the rear (and a 5.5" rear rim in place of the 6" OE unit) transformed the bike. I was gutted when I had to sell it to buy food after being out of work for 15 months.

I can honestly say I've never owned a bike that hasn't needed suspension work (not just adjustment).

On more than one occasion I've chased what I assumed to be too stiff suspension, only to find out that the spring(s) were too soft and I had been confusing suspension crashing through available travel and hitting the bump stop with too high a spring rate.

I'm unconvinced by active suspension. What happens when all those little stepper motors that are making adjustments hundreds of times a second wear out? That's going to be an expensive problem for the 2nd or 3rd (or 4th or 5th) owner.

I'll stop now...
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by Druid »

mangocrazy wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:14 pmEvery stock Honda I've ever ridden has over-soft spring rates front and rear and soggy, inadequate damping
They cured that on the Firestorm, it had a rock hard rear spring. Kept the soggy damping though, and the soft front springs :crazy:
mangocrazy wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:14 pm On more than one occasion I've chased what I assumed to be too stiff suspension, only to find out that the spring(s) were too soft and I had been confusing suspension crashing through available travel and hitting the bump stop with too high a spring rate.
This sounds familiar.

My Speed Triple is ok on decent road surfaces but when it gets a bit bumpy there have been times I've had to back off because the front end was getting really out of shape. It feels like the springs are too hard, and to make it worse I know it's had work done before I owned it but I don't know what. So last weekend I pulled the forks apart, the springs were marked 0.9 (kg/mm) and for my weight 1.0 springs are recommended. I have no idea how much that extra 0.1 kg/mm makes either
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by mangocrazy »

Druid wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:49 pm My Speed Triple is ok on decent road surfaces but when it gets a bit bumpy there have been times I've had to back off because the front end was getting really out of shape. It feels like the springs are too hard, and to make it worse I know it's had work done before I owned it but I don't know what. So last weekend I pulled the forks apart, the springs were marked 0.9 (kg/mm) and for my weight 1.0 springs are recommended. I have no idea how much that extra 0.1 kg/mm makes either
If a spring rate of 1.0 kg/mm is indicated for your weight, then I'd definitely go with that. It's about an 11% increase, which should make a noticeable difference. It would also be worthwhile to check out the compression damping piston and shim stack. One of the big improvements I made to my Falco was to fit Race-Tech Gold compression valves to the forks and use their recommended shim stack for my weight and riding style. All of a sudden I could feel what the front end was doing.

When I compared the Showa pistons and the Race-Techs the difference was obvious. The Showa pistons had restricted, square edged oilways, whereas the RTs had larger, rounded edged ports. It's the same as gas-flowing the ports in an engine to improve velocity.

I have no idea what the pistons/valving is like in a Speed Triple, so I may be way off beam with my comments but I'd definitely go with the heavier springs.
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by Sideshow Pob »

Sorry, New Years resolution is to pay a bit more attention to a few forums, especially this one! I see @weeksy tagged me in this thread some time ago and I've only just seen it.
I really like the way this thread has gone as it shows the diversity of knowledge, experience and expectation people have with regard to suspension.
So I've been setting up bikes for customers for over 8 years now and again it's a diverse bunch that wanted different things. I've spent time in the No Limits trackday paddock being their 'suspension support' as well as helping out my own shop customers who range from wanting to get the best from their road bikes to trying to win a club championship.
And all that just goes to show that you can't give the same set up to the same person and always expect them to be happy. Of all the things that rattle my can, it's a suspension 'guru' that gets a bike in and dials in settings from their own records as though this rider will want exactly the same as the previous. It's the same with ECU flashing, but that's a whole other story.
Setting up suspension requires a pair of ears to listen to what the customer wants. Obviously they are not going to be able to say, 'I want 2 clicks of rebound at the back' (if they did then they should do it themselves and save themselves the £50!) What you need to do is ask the right questions and interpret the answers. This can range from, 'what's wrong?', 'it's running wide on the exit of Gerrards' to 'do you get flashed by oncoming cars when your girlfriend is pillion', 'yes, all the time'. Very different questions, very different answers and very different situations.
Different people also want different feel from their bikes. I had a customer who's first 'big' bike was a Ducati Supersport (the new ish one) and he really thought he could get a 'magic carpet' ride from it. He was really upset that it didn't do what his 5 series BMW could do. He didn't seem so upset that the BMW couldn't do some of the things the bike could do but there we go! What he really should have bought was a Multistrada; that's a bike that I feel has got the closest (of the bikes I've ridden at any rate) to a 'magic carpet' feel (but at the loss of some 'feel'!)
I'm really of the opinion that (and this will surprise a few people) that owners should play with the suspension settings themselves to see what happens. Most of the time, a few clicks here will not make the bike unrideable so just have a go yourself. It's fun! Obviously some people really don't want to try that so then I'll step in, take some money but then guide them through the experience so that they not only get a better set up bike but also have the knowledge to continue to try adjustments as they live with their bike.
I currently own a Street Triple 765RS and the owners manual has suspension settings for comfy, road and track (or something like that) and it says that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should the preload adjuster on the rear shock be changed - it's factory set! What a load of pish!! I measured it, the sag was wrong, I changed it and the bike road better. For me, and that's the thing; it might not be like that for every 765RS owner.
There's plenty of info on the internet about suspension. Go watch a few videos by people who look like they know what they are talking about and maybe have a gentle prod at some of the adjusters on your bike. What's the worst that can happen ;)
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weeksy
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Re: Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

Post by weeksy »

Welcome back in mate. Great info!