In todays news...

[Cousin Jack]

What I find curious is that due to the massive outrage, they were able to arrest four suspect traffickers before they even finished counting the bodies. Seems a bit too quick, too easy. I smell a rat.

I know nothing of French criminal law, but if the traffic were the other way I can see that the police might have difficulty in arresting someone if they had no evidence of them committing a crime. Knowing something and having evidence is quite different. Perhaps the fact that the boat sank and people died changed the legal situation.

[slowsider]

Resuming legal routes for immigration would reduce the demand for the services of the traffickers.

[wheelnut]

Resuming legal routes for immigration would reduce the demand for the services of the traffickers.

I think that’s the way forward. Let them apply for asylum in the uk from within a EU country.

[Dodgy69]

Wasn't someone on here after an air rifle ???

[DefTrap]

I'm a million percent convinced that if it was immigrants leaving the UK to go to France (perilously in a dinghy) that thered be no shortage of ruddy faced Brits willing to help them on their way. Why would the French be any different?

[JamJar]

The coastline is huge. I suspect the provinces are an easy target for bribery when the numbers are so huge. This boat earned someone £250k for 50 seats @£5k per person. How much is a local gendarme? Just have to turn a blind eye for an hour or so.

Plus of course, what might their attitude really be towards exporting "the problem"? There is a YouTube vid out there purporting to show le plod just standing there watching...

What I find curious is that due to the massive outrage, they were able to arrest four suspect traffickers before they even finished counting the bodies. Seems a bit too quick, too easy. I smell a rat.

I would assume that is perfectly legal for people on a French beach to get into a boat and set off out to sea just as it is here.

[Count Steer]

Resuming legal routes for immigration would reduce the demand for the services of the traffickers.

I think that’s the way forward. Let them apply for asylum in the uk from within a EU country.

Get the French to put them through HGV training then we can put recruitment agencies over there to handle the paperwork.

[Cousin Jack]

Resuming legal routes for immigration would reduce the demand for the services of the traffickers.

I think that’s the way forward. Let them apply for asylum in the uk from within a EU country.

Why? As I understand our obligations under International law, asylum should be sought from the FIRST safe country. Most of these people have passed through at least 2 safe countries, often more. These are economic migrants, and we have no 'duty' to economic migrants.

Perhaps what we should do is state clearly (and then enforce) a policy that asylum is ONLY potentially available if you turn up at a recognised port or airport on a normal boat or plane, direct from your country of origin. Enter illegally or via a third 'safe' country and you will be refused asylum. No ifs or buts, those are the rules. If we really want to be humanitarian we should accept say 25/50/100,000 people pa from refugee camps, process them in the camps, and then fly them to the UK.

[DefTrap]

Perhaps what we should do is state clearly (and then enforce) a policy that asylum is ONLY potentially available if you turn up at a recognised port or airport on a normal boat or plane, direct from your country of origin. Enter illegally or via a third 'safe' country and you will be refused asylum. No ifs or buts, those are the rules. If we really want to be humanitarian we should accept say 25/50/100,000 people pa from refugee camps, process them in the camps, and then fly them to the UK.

.. issues -
- the authorities are already struggling to enforce the current 'system' (a system that seems to be based on the principles of "let's hope the weather puts them off")
- who decides who wins the golden tickets for entry and who has to try another year? (please say it can be a televised "Immigrant Got Talent" ?)
- you're legalising the joke 'Farage taxi' - goes against the principles of Boris Brexit Britain to have a quota of undesirables shipped in as cheap labour when young spotty Dave from Essex needs that cabbage picking job
- when your proposed legal process inevitably starts to creak at the hinges after the first five minutes, then
--- there will be even bigger backlogs, immigrant camps, mainly in France you would assume
--- the trafficking will start up again

[Yambo]

What pisses me off is they don't need passenger locator forms, a Day 2 Lateral Flow test or a vaccination certificate!

[Screwdriver]

The coastline is huge. I suspect the provinces are an easy target for bribery when the numbers are so huge. This boat earned someone £250k for 50 seats @£5k per person. How much is a local gendarme? Just have to turn a blind eye for an hour or so.

Plus of course, what might their attitude really be towards exporting "the problem"? There is a YouTube vid out there purporting to show le plod just standing there watching...

What I find curious is that due to the massive outrage, they were able to arrest four suspect traffickers before they even finished counting the bodies. Seems a bit too quick, too easy. I smell a rat.

I would assume that is perfectly legal for people on a French beach to get into a boat and set off out to sea just as it is here.

Not if they are already breaking the law just by being there. These are illegal immigrants (clue in the title) and as economic migrants, cannot apply for asylum from a country which is already a safe haven.

Beggars belief that the French are blaming Boris and the UK for having a more desirable country for these people to aspire to inhabit.

There does need to be a managed process for immigration and I don't think the current system is anywhere near sufficient. We can't just slam the door shut and frankly we shouldn't either. Immigration is a fantastic way for a civilised nation to better itself.

The problem is there are an infinite number of people who would rather live here than where they are currently entitled to reside. I'mm all for immigration so long as they are willing to integrate into the UK and not form into hot spots or ghettos while trying to convert the UK into a facsimile of wherever it is they came from.

If people want to live here because they think our lifestyle is "better" then they need to integrate with our existing social and cultural norms which are pretty damned welcoming and inclusive already. You can go too far though with some of the more barbaric and anachronistic cultural baggage they want to bring with them.

[wheelnut]

Why? As I understand our obligations under International law, asylum should be sought from the FIRST safe country. Most of these people have passed through at least 2 safe countries, often more. These are economic migrants, and we have no 'duty' to economic migrants.

Perhaps what we should do is state clearly (and then enforce) a policy that asylum is ONLY potentially available if you turn up at a recognised port or airport on a normal boat or plane, direct from your country of origin. Enter illegally or via a third 'safe' country and you will be refused asylum. No ifs or buts, those are the rules. If we really want to be humanitarian we should accept say 25/50/100,000 people pa from refugee camps, process them in the camps, and then fly them to the UK.

I think the factors that are pushing them here will always be greater than the factors keeping them away. That’s the problem.

The vast majority are staying in France and Germany. The relatively few that end up here perhaps come because of ease of language and family links.

[slowsider]

What pisses me off is they don't need passenger locator forms, a Day 2 Lateral Flow test or a vaccination certificate!

But they don't get Duty Free either

[irie]

Strange that it seems that nobody so far has mentioned the EU's Dublin Regulation, so here it is:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polic ... ication_en

Member State responsible for an asylum application - Dublin Regulation

Every single asylum application lodged within EU territory needs to be examined - each Member State must be able to determine if and when it is responsible for handling an asylum claim.

The objective of the Dublin III Regulation is to ensure quick access to the asylum procedures and the examination of an application on the merits by a single, clearly determined EU country. The Regulation establishes the Member State responsible for the examination of the asylum application.

The criteria for establishing responsibility are, in hierarchical order:

family considerations,
recent possession of visa or residence permit in a Member State and
whether the applicant has entered EU irregularly, or regularly.

^^^ my highlight

[slowsider]

Are they applying for asylum in the EU? Or are they attempting to reach the UK before applying for asylum?

Strange that it seems that nobody so far has mentioned the EU's Dublin Regulation, so here it is:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polic ... ication_en

Member State responsible for an asylum application - Dublin Regulation

Every single asylum application lodged within EU territory needs to be examined - each Member State must be able to determine if and when it is responsible for handling an asylum claim.

The objective of the Dublin III Regulation is to ensure quick access to the asylum procedures and the examination of an application on the merits by a single, clearly determined EU country. The Regulation establishes the Member State responsible for the examination of the asylum application.

The criteria for establishing responsibility are, in hierarchical order:

family considerations,
recent possession of visa or residence permit in a Member State and
whether the applicant has entered EU irregularly, or regularly.

^^^ my highlight

[Dodgy69]

I blame the do-gooders, telling the world what a welcoming nation we are. Perhaps the DGs should be the ones who put them up.

[irie]

Emmanuel Macron today:

"We're going to ask for extra help from the British because all these men and women don't want to stay in France. We tell them they are to do so and there are centres in Dunkirk and Calais they can go to."

So much for the Dublin Regulation (previously known as the Dublin Convention) - not worth the paper it's written on.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polic ... ication_en

The overwhelming majority are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

An asylum seeker is a person looking for protection because they fear persecution, or they have experienced violence or human rights violations.

An economic migrant is someone who emigrates from one region to another, including crossing international borders, seeking an improved standard of living, because the conditions or job opportunities in the migrant's own region are insufficient.

[Screwdriver]

I blame the do-gooders, telling the world what a welcoming nation we are. Perhaps the DGs should be the ones who put them up.

I have seriously considered the idea. I have enough room and I would put up a couple or a small family but the restrictions and heavy handed authoritarian council jobsworths made that a complete no-go.

If it were possible to go "under the radar" and just put them up unofficially, I would do it. They are a cross section of humanity, there are good and bad and more importantly some of these immigrants will be engineers, scientists, doctors etc. who have simply had everything taken away from them.

[Hoonercat]

Emmanuel Macron today:

"We're going to ask for extra help from the British because all these men and women don't want to stay in France. We tell them they are to do so and there are centres in Dunkirk and Calais they can go to."

So much for the Dublin Regulation (previously known as the Dublin Convention) - not worth the paper it's written on.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polic ... ication_en

The overwhelming majority are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

An asylum seeker is a person looking for protection because they fear persecution, or they have experienced violence or human rights violations.

An economic migrant is someone who emigrates from one region to another, including crossing international borders, seeking an improved standard of living, because the conditions or job opportunities in the migrant's own region are insufficient.

The Dublin Regulation exists for the benefit of EU member states and those who wish to claim asylum within the EU. It's not for the benefit of the UK or those who wish to claim asylum in the UK.

[slowsider]

If he has us both on 'ignore' he'll prolly say it again.