Will the Chinese/Indonesian/Asian/Indian bikes ever take over ?

[weeksy]

Will there come a time then when the non Japanese/Euro manufacturers will ever take over and replace them at the top of the sales charts in Europe ?

Sure we have bikes from what we'd class as the 'mainstream' manufacturers that are actually produced over there, but none of their actual bikes are doing that well.... Maybe Royal Enfield ?

I get that in their own markets they're big players... but will they ever break into the Euro/US markets fully ?

Could we see one winning a WSB race ? Or a MotoX race ? etc.

[MingtheMerciless]

Chinese are good engineers (they've just managed to launch a missile/decoy from a larger missile travels at hypersonic speeds, its quite upset the Americans).

In time they will overtake the Europeans and Japs, massive manufacturing and home customer base means more money for R&D (not forgetting they are very good at intellectual theft).

[KungFooBob]

IIRC all BMW's twin engines are built in China, most Triumphs are built in Thailand.

The RE's may be built in in India, but a lot of the design work is done in the UK.

Benelli, Moto Marini, the new ADV MV's, etc.. are all either rebadged Chinese bikes, or using Chinese engines.

[Mr Moofo]

They will have killed us all by then anyway, so don't worry about it

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

You lot already cream your pants about KTMs, they're made in India (and probably better than the ones made in Austria), lots of Japanese branded bikes aren't made in Japan but in other Far East countries.

The Chinese are capable of making good stuff, but it has to be in their interest to do so, if they can get away with cutting corners they'll do it, much like the Italians, Americans and British.

[weeksy]

You lot already cream your pants about KTMs, they're made in India (and probably better than the ones made in Austria), lots of Japanese branded bikes aren't made in Japan but in other Far East countries.

The Chinese are capable of making good stuff, but it has to be in their interest to do so, if they can get away with cutting corners they'll do it, much like the Italians, Americans and British.

Some KTMs are.... but tehy're still KTMs.... they're still Austrian rather than a direct manufacturer, which was really my point.

[KungFooBob]

What makes a brand a from a particular country though?

The country the brand originated from.
The country the HQ is in.
The country where they're made.
The nationality of the designer.

[Horse]

They will have killed us all by then anyway, so don't worry about it

Salt and fat in take-aways?

[KungFooBob]

They will have killed us all by then anyway, so don't worry about it

Salt and fat in take-aways?

MSG!

[Supermofo]

Well I still struggle with Triumph being a British manufacturer when about 95% of their bikes are made in Thailand. Sounds more like a small British R&D company attached to a large Thai manufacturer.

[Horse]

Uk sales, Sep 2020
1 Honda 2,433
2 BMW 1,627
3 Yamaha 1,265
4 Lexmoto 1,199

Honda started off with the Cub, then Benly, small bikes and worked there way up.

The sort of things being said over the last few years about Chinese build quality are very similar to what was said in the 70s about Japanese bikes.

[weeksy]

What makes a brand a from a particular country though?

The country the brand originated from.
The country the HQ is in.
The country where they're made.
The nationality of the designer.

Well we'd say Triumph is British, Ducati Italian, KTM Austria, Honda Japanese.

So i'm saying that's a good gauge.... where the company was formed and initially sold units would potentially be the start point ?

With society being a bit more 'global' now that may be harder to quantify. But if Tamburini went to work for Kiyomoto, that wouldn't make them Italian (yes i don't know if that company exists, i made it up).... they'd still be Chinese. I think we'd say in most circumstances a company first sells their bikes in the country they're made and the country the HQ is in ?

There's complications to that with say MASH who are founded in France but made in China, or indeed AJS which is an old British company but the bikes are now Chinese....

[weeksy]

Uk sales, Sep 2020
1 Honda 2,433
2 BMW 1,627
3 Yamaha 1,265
4 Lexmoto 1,199

Lexmoto LXR380
Lexmoto is one of the great success stories in the UK bike trade. It’s been importing and selling its own range of Chinese-built bikes for more than a decade, and its great value commuter-spec machinery is never far from the top of the sales charts.

The firm is expanding upwards though, and the new LXR380 is its biggest bike yet. It uses a 378cc liquid-cooled parallel twin engine wrapped up inside a really trick-looking supersports chassis.

Lexmoto also had the best-selling PTW overall with the Lexmoto Enigma ZS 125 T-46 shifting 309


It's unlike to win WSB.... Clearly they sell a few though but they're not 'motorbikes' more baby bikes ?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The brand is just marketing, aren't MASH exactly the same bikes as Herald, putting MASH on the tank doesn't make the bike French, same as putting Triumph on the tank doesn't make the bike British.

I had a Husqvarna that was entirely made and designed in Italy, it was Italian, not Swedish, were the Italian made Harley Davidsons American?

In the end it doesn't matter, the quality of the product is more important than where it's made

[Horse]

It's unlike to win WSB.... Clearly they sell a few though but they're not 'motorbikes' more baby bikes ?

Honda IIRC started making engines to bolt onto bicycle frames. I doubt back then anyone could have predicted the Fireblade or Freddie Spencer on GP bikes.

[MrLongbeard]

What makes a brand a from a particular country though?

For the purposes of this thread alone, whichever country sets the engineering standards and quality levels for that brand.

[Horse]

Interesting that motorcycle sales have fallen in India


In financial year 2021, two-wheeler sales in India saw a decrease from the previous years to 15.12 million units.

[Bustaspoke]

Well I still struggle with Triumph being a British manufacturer when about 95% of their bikes are made in Thailand. Sounds more like a small British R&D company attached to a large Thai manufacturer.

I reckon Enfield employ nore people over here than Triumph.
I find it ironic that the less ''British'' a Triumph is,the more they plaster Union Jack logo's on the bike...
Love my Thaiumph!!

[Horse]

Perhaps three guides should be: where are they designed, who sets quality, where do profits end up?

NB don't try and apply this to the recent Nortons ...

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

A related question, do you feel that buying a Triumph is patriotic (if you're British) and if so why, when it's made in Thailand?