Driver kills 2 people, sentenced for 2 years suspended

[weeksy]

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19714 ... -sentence/

I shouldn't be shocked, but surely if you're sentenced as 'causing death by careless driving' you can't come out of it with a slap on the wrist.

Wrong wrong wrong.

[Yorick]

This would suggest he was travelling bloody quick. The law says you should drive at a speed where you can see ahead and be able to stop in time

Mr Natale was thrown quite a long way into the road on the other carriageway. Mr Coles was thrown over the vehicle, over the crash barrier, down the embankment and the evidence is quite clear that they were both dead on impact due to the severe injuries that they sustained and it is some consolation to those who love Mr Coles and Mr Natale to learn that they did not suffer. They were not left in the road or down the embankment in excruciating pain - in the case of Mr Coles - with nobody with them. They died instantly.

[slowsider]

Its suspended but 2 years is more than a slap on the wrist imho

[weeksy]

Its suspended but 2 years is more than a slap on the wrist imho

Not if you don't serve it. It's just a telling off isn't it?

[G.P]

Its suspended but 2 years is more than a slap on the wrist imho

It only gets served if they get found guilty of a similar offence in that 2 year period so its not even a slap on the wrist, its just a threat of being sent to jail if they do it again.
The reason its such a light "sentence" is because it been deemed to be careless rather than wreskless or Dangerous driving.

[slowsider]

Its suspended but 2 years is more than a slap on the wrist imho

Not if you don't serve it. It's just a telling off isn't it?

I'd just as soon not be convicted of killing two lads, whether or not I do time. The article is clear on the judge's deliberation, and that until recently it would 'only' have been careless driving. Is he likely to reoffend? Would a custodial sentence deter others? [/devils advocate]

[Asian Boss]

This would suggest he was travelling bloody quick. The law says you should drive at a speed where you can see ahead and be able to stop in time

Mr Natale was thrown quite a long way into the road on the other carriageway. Mr Coles was thrown over the vehicle, over the crash barrier, down the embankment and the evidence is quite clear that they were both dead on impact due to the severe injuries that they sustained and it is some consolation to those who love Mr Coles and Mr Natale to learn that they did not suffer. They were not left in the road or down the embankment in excruciating pain - in the case of Mr Coles - with nobody with them. They died instantly.

This however suggests he wasn't:

"He was not driving at excessive speed."

[JackyJoll]

The vengeful among you should be careful what you wish for.

Anyone who drives a car might kill someone.

[KungFooBob]

Must have been a shit company director to drive a Golf.

Directors are supposed to drive Jags or S classes.

[Asian Boss]

Must have been a shit company director to drive a Golf.

Directors are supposed to drive Jags or S classes.

I think a 5-Series is the choice of the Director of telling people to change their tone pretty sharply my man or you'll never work in this industry again.

Maybe it was one of those Golf Rs? Even so, a four cylinder ladies shopping car. [retches uncontrollably]

[Horse]

The reason its such a light "sentence" is because it been deemed to be careless rather than wreskless or Dangerous driving.

Also, it's the action being punished, rather than the consequences.

[Mussels]

The vengeful among you should be careful what you wish for.

Anyone who drives a car might kill someone.

I agree and wish sentencing was based more on the crime than the outcome, why do most people who fall asleep at the wheel get next to nothing but the one who derailed a train got many years inside, they are all out of control just the same.

Must have been a shit company director to drive a Golf.

Directors are supposed to drive Jags or S classes.

Meh, I'm a company director. It don't mean much.

[KungFooBob]

When I was a company director I drove a Saxo VTR.

It was my company and I was the only employee.

[Yorick]

When I was a company director I drove a Saxo VTR.

It was my company and I was the only employee.

I had a GSXR1000 when I had my company

[David]

I rather think this depends on exactly which part of his body he will be suspended by......


But, if you read the Judge's summing up, it does seem far more reasonable. Also, a ban may destroy his career and company.
And my company car was an extended LWB transit transporter

[wheelnut]

FWIW, I think the sentence is about right. There was no deliberate act, there was no wilful disregard of laws, it was a moment’s inattention which falls under the careless driving umbrella rather than dangerous driving. A couple of years ago it wouldn’t have attracted a sentence or a criminal conviction at all as there was no death by careless law, only death by dangerous.

As has been pointed out, there for the grace …

[wheelnut]

But I could also argue the other side of the coin, bicycles have no place on public highways, they're not equipped to share their space with two tonne motor vehicles driven by fallible human beings at 26 metres per second. In this case, given the speed delta, a lapse of a few seconds meant that he was on top of them and they're dead.

When you combine this with the attitude of many of these cyclists and their assertion in 'claiming their lane' then it's going to continue over and over again.

I'm sure people will now tell me I'm wrong and fair enough, I'm wrong, but I'm wrong and alive whilst those two blokes are still dead.

I think the roads are a shared space and we should try to use them in a way that keeps other users safe. That said, road users also have a responsibility to keep themselves safe and the hyper-agressive breed of cyclists that we sometimes see (not saying the two in the OP fall into that description) don’t do themselves any favours.

We were in the lakes the other week; nadgery roads west of Keswick, blind-ish right hander leading to a steep up hill bank. Just as the corner opened up two Lycra clad TDF wannabes came down the bank, probably 40-50mph totally out of control with skinny tyres, vestigial brakes and a damp road surface. I stopped and they somehow managed to squeeze between the left of me and the scenery.

[PitaNaanRoti]

I think you really need to remember that Pedestrians, cyclists and horses have an ABSOLUTE RIGHT to be on the road - everyone else must be licensed and that license can be removed at any point.
The sooner the privileged attitude of driving being a "right" gets removed the better.

[Yambo]

I think you really need to remember that Pedestrians, cyclists and horses have an ABSOLUTE RIGHT to be on the road - everyone else must be licensed and that license can be removed at any point.
The sooner the privileged attitude of driving being a "right" gets removed the better.

Spot on.

My good friend Neil killed a cyclist with a 40 tonne artic. Foggy, dark early morning, possibly no lights on the bicycle. Neil had depression, possibly PTSD from GW1 and was on a high dose of anti-depressants and probably shouldn't have been driving trucks at all. He was eventually only charged with driving without due care, pleaded guilty and was really hoping to be punished. He got a fine and 9 points. It didn't help him one bit.

He carried his remorse to his grave (died in a motorcycle accident in 2006) and could never understand why he hadn't got nick. He was killed instantly in the accident but I wonder if in the last split second he felt justice had at last been done.

[Mr Moofo]

The absolute right to stay alive, despite dicing with fast moving things that can easily kill them, didn’t really count for much in the end did it.

Those two blokes were absolutely right.
Dead. But right.

Their mistake was to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and driven into by an arsehole.
If this had been you kid in Dubai that had been totalled your attitude would be somewhat different.

Bit bored back at work on Monday morning?

BTW, I am stunned by the sentence - and can only hope that there are other (civil) route to make sure the man is sued until bankrupt.