Dodgy knees wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:43 am
My wife's niece works in social care and is anti vax. I'd put her low end of IQ scale, she's still working.
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:36 pm
I'm not looking at it from a purely NHS perspective, I don't think people should be forced to have vaccinations to keep their jobs no matter where they work.
Unfortunately the most likely place to catch Covid is a hospital or a care home, so I can also see the sense in getting the staff there vaccinated - so my objection is more of a principle thing, rather than a "I don't think vaccinations work" thing.
Lots of jobs come with conditions. My last job had a condition that I was subject to random drug testing, and a refusal to test, or a positive test, was instant dismissal. If you don't like the rules get another job with different rules.
I rather like companies that insist on staff being vaccinated. It makes me feel slightly safer. I would particularly like NHS staff being vaccinated since they may need to get up close and personal.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:01 pm
Lots of jobs come with conditions. My last job had a condition that I was subject to random drug testing, and a refusal to test, or a positive test, was instant dismissal. If you don't like the rules get another job with different rules.
Was that the case when you joined?
And if not, what was the process to change the rules? Consultation? Agreement? Diktat?
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:01 pm
Lots of jobs come with conditions. My last job had a condition that I was subject to random drug testing, and a refusal to test, or a positive test, was instant dismissal. If you don't like the rules get another job with different rules.
Was that the case when you joined?
And if not, what was the process to change the rules? Consultation? Agreement? Diktat?
As I recall diktat. The company was an FAA-approved for maintaining US registered aircraft, and IIRC this was a diktat from the FAA . TBH it didn't bother me because I have never touched recreational drugs except tobacco and alcohol, and I never got tested anyway.
Cousin Jack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:01 pm
Lots of jobs come with conditions. My last job had a condition that I was subject to random drug testing, and a refusal to test, or a positive test, was instant dismissal. If you don't like the rules get another job with different rules.
Was that the case when you joined?
And if not, what was the process to change the rules? Consultation? Agreement? Diktat?
As I recall diktat. The company was an FAA-approved for maintaining US registered aircraft, and IIRC this was a diktat from the FAA . TBH it didn't bother me because I have never touched recreational drugs except tobacco and alcohol, and I never got tested anyway.
They mandated that you MUST NOT do something, that was in any case illegal, which is slightly different from mandating that you must.
slowsider wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:58 pm
Was that the case when you joined?
And if not, what was the process to change the rules? Consultation? Agreement? Diktat?
As I recall diktat. The company was an FAA-approved for maintaining US registered aircraft, and IIRC this was a diktat from the FAA . TBH it didn't bother me because I have never touched recreational drugs except tobacco and alcohol, and I never got tested anyway.
They mandated that you MUST NOT do something, that was in any case illegal, which is slightly different from mandating that you must.
There are many things people are not supposed to do, being in possession of certain drugs is one of them.
Part of my job used to mean being in depots where random testing of everyone on-site was a possibility. That would - so I was told, it never happened - have included me, even though I wasn't an employee or contractor. Putting up some sort of refusal would have been dodgy at best.
As I recall diktat. The company was an FAA-approved for maintaining US registered aircraft, and IIRC this was a diktat from the FAA . TBH it didn't bother me because I have never touched recreational drugs except tobacco and alcohol, and I never got tested anyway.
They mandated that you MUST NOT do something, that was in any case illegal, which is slightly different from mandating that you must.
There are many things people are not supposed to do, being in possession of certain drugs is one of them.
Part of my job used to mean being in depots where random testing of everyone on-site was a possibility. That would - so I was told, it never happened - have included me, even though I wasn't an employee or contractor. Putting up some sort of refusal would have been dodgy at best.
slowsider wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:11 pm
They mandated that you MUST NOT do something, that was in any case illegal, which is slightly different from mandating that you must.
They mandated that I MUST submit to a test. I understand it was a blood, saliva and hair test to pick up just about everything, even days after the event, although as I said, I never had one.
slowsider wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:11 pm
They mandated that you MUST NOT do something, that was in any case illegal, which is slightly different from mandating that you must.
They mandated that I MUST submit to a test. I understand it was a blood, saliva and hair test to pick up just about everything, even days after the event, although as I said, I never had one.
Agreed, (though it was that you must submit to the possibility of a test, since you never had one) but the point was to proscribe putting something into your body, not prescribe it
Yorick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:10 pm
You can't change a person's employment contract normally. But there may a way out if it's to save lives and for the good of the country.
You certainly can change a Contract of Employment. Not willy nilly, not without good reason, and some safeguards, but you can change it.
Yorick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:10 pm
You can't change a person's employment contract normally. But there may a way out if it's to save lives and for the good of the country.
You certainly can change a Contract of Employment. Not willy nilly, not without good reason, and some safeguards, but you can change it.
Random drug tests are normal in my industry,which deals with trivial money matters. I would have thought that the people shoving the need for the vaccination would be in front of the rest of us.
If not they cam fuck off and find employment in another industry.
gremlin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:11 pm
Random drug tests are normal in my industry,which deals with trivial money matters. I would have thought that the people shoving the need for the vaccination would be in front of the rest of us.
If not they cam fuck off and find employment in another industry.
I sort of assumed that coke was compulsory for anybody with posh job in London.
irie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:02 am
If you are vaccinated you are far less likely to contract Covid-19 and are therefore far less likely to transmit the disease to others than if you were not vaccinated.
Didn't know that. I think the press should make a bigger issue of this, therefore putting the pressure on those non vaccs.
I'm betting that depends on what articles you read... i'll bet that there's just as many articles say no than say yes....
There has been a lot of information in the media about how vaccines affect the immune system suppressing infection, but understanding it does depend upon reading it. And perhaps upon having a reading age above the UK average which would seem to be much lower than I previously thought ...
Readability data suggest that the average reading age of the UK population is 9 years – that is, they have achieved the reading ability normally expected of a 9-year-old. The Guardian has a reading age of 14 and the Sun has a reading age of 8.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Didn't know that. I think the press should make a bigger issue of this, therefore putting the pressure on those non vaccs.
I'm betting that depends on what articles you read... i'll bet that there's just as many articles say no than say yes....
There has been a lot of information in the media about how vaccines affect the immune system suppressing infection, but understanding it does depend upon reading it. And perhaps upon having a reading age above the UK average which would seem to be much lower than I previously thought ...
Readability data suggest that the average reading age of the UK population is 9 years – that is, they have achieved the reading ability normally expected of a 9-year-old. The Guardian has a reading age of 14 and the Sun has a reading age of 8.
I'm deffo over 9.... but i still can't be arsed looking for the answer to the question
Interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning . The manager of a Care Home was losing an experienced and highly valued carer because she did not wish to be vaccinated . All the carers are regularly submitted to 3 or 4 Covid tests per week ( One PCR , the rest LFTs ) .
She asked why she HAD to be vaccinated when other folk ( such as nominated family carers and visiting general members of the public ) DO NOT !
Don't get me wrong , I think it would be great if everybody possible was jabbed . The manger simply could not answer the departing carer's question .
Treadeager wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:06 am
Interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning . The manager of a Care Home was losing an experienced and highly valued carer because she did not wish to be vaccinated . All the carers are regularly submitted to 3 or 4 Covid tests per week ( One PCR , the rest LFTs ) .
She asked why she HAD to be vaccinated when other folk ( such as nominated family carers and visiting general members of the public ) DO NOT !
Don't get me wrong , I think it would be great if everybody possible was jabbed . The manger simply could not answer the departing carer's question .
I'm still surprised by the fact that people like her are NOT vaccinated and the why...
Even if she's tested say on a Weds, but comes in on a Tues, she could still have 24 or even 48 hours before the tests show as positive, they're not always 100% and it's not always instant. So in theory she could come in on the Monday to work after meeting someone on the weekend and have 2,3,4 days of infecting patients before she actually throws a positive?
