Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

[weeksy]

We deffo need more drunken posting!

Where's @DW. when you need him?

[Yorick]

We deffo need more drunken posting!

Where's @DW. when you need him?

Woo hoo. I can tell the missus I need to start drinking early

*waddles off to the beer fridge *

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I'm merely irritating sober, drunk I move to full on offensive, and I wish I was joking.

[Count Steer]

All I ever wanted from a shock was enough adjustability to do what I needed to do and understand what the adjustment was doing. So one-up to 2-up+luggage...crank up pre-load, tweak damping to whatever felt best. The missus was always on at me...put some Ohlins on (!! she's odd like that ) but I always resisted 'cos then I'd need an expert to get the best out of them and I was never that unhappy with the stock ones. Pondered on WP for a while but then got a bike where the stock ones (adjustable to some degree electrically/electronically) were said to be made by WP anyway. Never did find out if it was true but the bike was fine anyway.

If I decided to do track days, I'd get a track day bike rather than try and make the daily transport do both....or bimble round within the limits of what's on and what I can easily adjust (and understand). Otherwise it's all voodoo to me.

[Couchy]

Doesn't it feel stiffer as your rising rate rear suspension is now operating in a different area of it's stroke, i.e. a more rising rate area ?

Quite possibly, that was the only thing I could think of, that you're changing the geometry in some way and thereby changing the leverage ratios.

That’s how I see it, most bikes with a rising rate linkage have a linear spring so the spring rate is fixed and the difference you feel when upping the preload is because the linkage is working in a different place

To confuse matters, as the rear suspension compresses the rising rate makes it get stiffer. Adding preload extends the suspension so the rising rate linkage could be moved into an area of less leverage therefore making the suspension initially softer.

[Skub]

Doesn't it feel stiffer as your rising rate rear suspension is now operating in a different area of it's stroke, i.e. a more rising rate area ?

Quite possibly, that was the only thing I could think of, that you're changing the geometry in some way and thereby changing the leverage ratios.

That’s how I see it, most bikes with a rising rate linkage have a linear spring so the spring rate is fixed and the difference you feel when upping the preload is because the linkage is working in a different place

That's why I wonder about riders who bung on cheap jack up/lowering plates. They impact on more than ride height.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Quite possibly, that was the only thing I could think of, that you're changing the geometry in some way and thereby changing the leverage ratios.

That’s how I see it, most bikes with a rising rate linkage have a linear spring so the spring rate is fixed and the difference you feel when upping the preload is because the linkage is working in a different place

That's why I wonder about riders who bung on cheap jack up/lowering plates. They impact on more than ride height.

Stay well clear of them, they seriously change the leverage ratios, I rode something (possibly an SV650) with some jack up links, the suspension was hideously hard.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

All I ever wanted from a shock was enough adjustability to do what I needed to do and understand what the adjustment was doing. So one-up to 2-up+luggage...crank up pre-load, tweak damping to whatever felt best. The missus was always on at me...put some Ohlins on (!! she's odd like that ) but I always resisted 'cos then I'd need an expert to get the best out of them and I was never that unhappy with the stock ones. Pondered on WP for a while but then got a bike where the stock ones (adjustable to some degree electrically/electronically) were said to be made by WP anyway. Never did find out if it was true but the bike was fine anyway.

If I decided to do track days, I'd get a track day bike rather than try and make the daily transport do both....or bimble round within the limits of what's on and what I can easily adjust (and understand). Otherwise it's all voodoo to me.

In theory I don't need any adjustment in a shock, once it's right I never touch it again, in theory I could get a shock built for me and if it was right, I would never need to adjust it.
With older, damper rod forks I don't care if they've got any adjustment because you can change any thing yourself relatively easily, need more preload, put washers between the top cap and the spring, need more damping, change the oil to a thicker oil, and the springs are easy to change.

[Hairybiker84]

I am really fussy about suspension, can't stand bikes that feel like they have had the front wheel put in wrong and have no compliance and lots of 'stiction' i.e. most of the KTM's I've ridden. The 990SMT was probably the best KTM, and the RC8 the worst for real road use.
I've had forks re-valved and re-sprung on my ZX12 and Hayabusa's and they made a massive difference - The only bike I've owned that had a woefully bad back end was the 1050 Sprint ST, bought new and quickly regretted it so cba to spend any money sorting it.
I've now had 3 bikes with ESA and would be hard pushed to change back to conventional with the real mix of surfaces I ride, often use all 3 modes when out for a ride and the Super10 had 4 lots of preload too. For me this is the way forward and I can get the suspension to behave pretty much how I want on most surfaces. Some of the minor roads are so bad it has to be on 'soft' to stop your eyeballs rattling!

[Demannu]

And there we have one of the commonest misconceptions about suspension.
Changing the preload alters ride height, that is all!
It doesn't 'soften' the spring or 'firm' it up. It just raises/lowers the seat in relation to the wheel spindle.
Here endeth the lesson!

Only if it's a linear spring.

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

The preload just sets the sag, which is how low/high the bike sits on its suspension stroke.
The ride height adjuster alters the geometry of the bike without affecting the suspension stroke, the same way dropping or raising the forks does.
Dont confuse sag and ride height.
Remind me again how many TT winning bikes you've spannered on?

[Yorick]

Only if it's a linear spring.

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

The preload just sets the sag, which is how low/high the bike sits on its suspension stroke.
The ride height adjuster alters the geometry of the bike without affecting the suspension stroke, the same way dropping or raising the forks does.
Dont confuse sag and ride height.
Remind me again how many TT winning bikes you've spannered on?

I was in the pit lane next to Slop in 1992

[Count Steer]

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

The preload just sets the sag, which is how low/high the bike sits on its suspension stroke.
The ride height adjuster alters the geometry of the bike without affecting the suspension stroke, the same way dropping or raising the forks does.
Dont confuse sag and ride height.
Remind me again how many TT winning bikes you've spannered on?

I was in the pit lane next to Slop in 1992

I've pressed a button to change from 'Normal' to 'Sport'.

[Yorick]

The preload just sets the sag, which is how low/high the bike sits on its suspension stroke.
The ride height adjuster alters the geometry of the bike without affecting the suspension stroke, the same way dropping or raising the forks does.
Dont confuse sag and ride height.
Remind me again how many TT winning bikes you've spannered on?

I was in the pit lane next to Slop in 1992

I've pressed a button to change from 'Normal' to 'Sport'.

It was awesome. I was with my pal Dave Castle in the Senior race. My job was to clean the screen during pit stop. Hislop was next in line and his crew were a bit smarter than us

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Only if it's a linear spring.

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

The preload just sets the sag, which is how low/high the bike sits on its suspension stroke.
The ride height adjuster alters the geometry of the bike without affecting the suspension stroke, the same way dropping or raising the forks does.
Dont confuse sag and ride height.
Remind me again how many TT winning bikes you've spannered on?

None, but I have spannered on one that was 3rd in a National Championship, another bike that's won races at Oliver's Mount if we're going down the willy waving route.

[Bigyin]

On my Zx636B1 the standard shock was eye shaking ly hard and had fuck all damping in it. I got hold of a second hand Nitron shock from Animal (old skool VD member) and it transformed the bike to really sweet handling and also more comfortable on bumpy stuff.

The Multistrada has loads of electronis and the semi active system is quite weird till you get used to it but they come out of the factory set for an Italian midget. So soft that the first time i rode in in nager chasing Abel over some Yorkshire fast roads it would dive at the front on the brakes like a sub in a crash dive descent and this upset the bike so badly on turn in as it would then boing back up. I did some digging on the forums and found there is a manual preload adjuster that needed 6 turns wound in for my weight that Ducati dont tell you about.

It transformed the handling and makes the bike far more secure on the front end but i suspect the rear also needs improvement but the adjustment on that is only through the electronics as far as i can see as a lot of owners change out the rear shock for something stiffer

I am happy with mine as it is and when i have the missus on the back or go with luggage i push a button on the dash and the fancy electronics sorts it all out for me .....which is nice

[wull]

Oh ffs………….

I love these threads, every man and their dug all of a sudden become Dave Moss suspension experts

[Yorick]

Oh ffs………….

I love these threads, every man and their dug all of a sudden become Dave Moss suspension experts

I was just giving my personal experience. Sorry.

[Bigyin]

Oh ffs………….

I love these threads, every man and their dug all of a sudden become Dave Moss suspension experts

We are all idiots……. Educate us on how we are all wrong

[wull]

Oh ffs………….

I love these threads, every man and their dug all of a sudden become Dave Moss suspension experts

We are all idiots……. Educate us on how we are all wrong

No no, I’m just as bad!

[Couchy]

Oh ffs………….

I love these threads, every man and their dug all of a sudden become Dave Moss suspension experts

Oooh controversial picking Dave Moss as plenty don’t always agree 100% with him.
But those of us that know how we like a bike to feel and set it up ourselves to make it so can’t be wrong. I’ll happily swap a shock and set it up static to my personal base setting and then tweak it for the first few rides to get the feel I want. Forks take a bit longer especially if damper rod and I’ve got to play around with weights and levels of oil. A few times I’ve changed the hole size in them too. I’m about to convert my MT07 to cartridges so that’ll be another setup I’ll have to do on them. I’m no expert but I’ve had enough bikes and ridden enough on track and road to know exactly what I want and how to get it. I’ve watched enough pros setting bikes up at track to know I would only trust one or two to work on mine. The others are no better than me and tbh now I can get my bikes as good or better than any pro setup I’ve had. I reckon a base setup on most people’s bikes would be an improvement on what they have now.