Suspension, what do you look for in a bike ? What would you change and why ?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Interesting discussion, I am 95kg in riding kit and I think the spring on the rear shock of my GSX-S 750 is a bit too hard for me, I've dropped the pre load from notch 3 to notch 2, but I haven't had a chance to ride it yet, so I don't know if this has sorted it, the damping feels a bit "meh", which has to be the vaguest description of damping ever, I can't tell you what's wrong with it, but it doesn't feel as good as a £300 YSS shock, weirdly the forks feel good, but this may be because the rear shock doesn't feel good - don't get me wrong the back ends as good as any budget rear shock that's been set up for any thing from a 10 stone rider to 40 stones of rider and pillion.

Road bike suspension is always going to be a compromise, the speed range that you want it to work at is huge, the surfaces it's trying to cope with are varied and how you want to ride varies from day to day, sometimes you want to pretend your at the TT, sometimes you want to look at the scenery, in the past I've set up road bikes like track bikes and whilst it's worked on well surfaced roads, it most definitely didn't work on poorly surfaced roads, the best road setup I've found was a Supermoto setup, but the bike gets a bit vague at high speeds.

[weeksy]

Mostly i agree, but where i rides and the roads i pick keep me away from "fast road", the only time i see that is when i hit the A4 to Calne, which hasn't been often lately. The rest are more goat tracks

I always thought that fast road meant that you ride on the road so you want it compliant, but you rode perhaps on the more aggressive side of average so you want it set up a little bit harder than someone who would pootle around.

The faster you go (on any surface) the harder it's set up.

Ah, i thought you meant 'fast roads' rather than fast riding on the roads. e.g 100mph + roads... which as above, i very rarely ride.

[Supermofo]

I just ride them how they come.

Unless they're shagged, then they get fixed, usually as cheaply as possible.

Me too. If I bike is too bouncy (usually the case) I just compensate. I've not had any bikes that were too bad. Ones that stick out were Fazer 6 and Z750, they had pogo sticks for shocks and I did consider upgrading the Z750 but it got deaded. The other was the forks in the Firestorm. Except those I've been happy enough to ride as is.

The 690 is a bit bouncy but not enough for me to bother with.

[Yorick]

The suspension on my current GSXR is fantastic. Soaks up any road imperfections and handles fantastic. But not tried it on track yet.

But had all 6 of my previous GSXRs set up for track and were amazing on the road.
Top quality sussers can do both. Budget sussers only one thing.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The suspension on my current GSXR is fantastic. Soaks up any road imperfections and handles fantastic. But not tried it on track yet.

But had all 6 of my previous GSXRs set up for track and were amazing on the road.
Top quality sussers can do both. Budget sussers only one thing.

The last GSXR I had (750 K2) had superb suspension, I wonder if the rear shock from one would fit on my GSX.

[Yorick]

The suspension on my current GSXR is fantastic. Soaks up any road imperfections and handles fantastic. But not tried it on track yet.

But had all 6 of my previous GSXRs set up for track and were amazing on the road.
Top quality sussers can do both. Budget sussers only one thing.

The last GSXR I had (750 K2) had superb suspension, I wonder if the rear shock from one would fit on my GSX.

Likely be knackered by now.
Pay someone to set it up properly. I could never do my own.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Likely be knackered by now.
Pay someone to set it up properly. I could never do my own.

20 years ago I never needed GSXR shocks very far from stock settings, that may have changed now I weigh 40% more.
The GSX has sod all to set up, it's a cheap shock, I suspect I'm going to upgrade it, what goes on it will come down to how much I want to spend, though I've found YSS shocks to be good and they're not expensive.

[Couchy]

Track setup is always harsher on the road. If you want plush on the road you need a softer spring and good damping. TT bikes are run softer than short circuit bikes for this reason. When I do the cartridges on my MT07 forks I'll go down a size on the recommended 9.5 springs so I can keep the compliant feeling while getting better damping control.
I've always done my suspension even if it's been oil levels/weight and springs only as it makes a good difference to how a bike feels even if it doesn't make me faster.
I do all my own tbh as I enjoy setting them up and working on them, it's satisfying

[Demannu]

Interesting discussion, I am 95kg in riding kit and I think the spring on the rear shock of my GSX-S 750 is a bit too hard for me, I've dropped the pre load from notch 3 to notch 2

And there we have one of the commonest misconceptions about suspension.
Changing the preload alters ride height, that is all!
It doesn't 'soften' the spring or 'firm' it up. It just raises/lowers the seat in relation to the wheel spindle.
Here endeth the lesson!

[KungFooBob]

Interesting discussion, I am 95kg in riding kit and I think the spring on the rear shock of my GSX-S 750 is a bit too hard for me, I've dropped the pre load from notch 3 to notch 2

And there we have one of the commonest misconceptions about suspension.
Changing the preload alters ride height, that is all!
It doesn't 'soften' the spring or 'firm' it up. It just raises/lowers the seat in relation to the wheel spindle.
Here endeth the lesson!

Only if it's a linear spring.

[Yorick]

Track setup is always harsher on the road. If you want plush on the road you need a softer spring and good damping. TT bikes are run softer than short circuit bikes for this reason. When I do the cartridges on my MT07 forks I'll go down a size on the recommended 9.5 springs so I can keep the compliant feeling while getting better damping control.
I've always done my suspension even if it's been oil levels/weight and springs only as it makes a good difference to how a bike feels even if it doesn't make me faster.
I do all my own tbh as I enjoy setting them up and working on them, it's satisfying

You can sort my Husky out

[Skub]

I think there's a few hangups when bike riders start talking suspension. There is frequently occurring opinion that you need to be riding beyond the capabilities of the stock kit before you deserve anything special. There is a kind of inverse snobbery prevalent,where if you are a real man,then you can ride around any ponce with all the trick gear and no idea.

Let's look at some of that.

You don't need to be a riding god with huge natural ability to benefit from good aftermarket suspension.

You don't need to ride at or over the limit to benefit from good aftermarket suspension.

You don't need to be a trackday only fiend to benefit from good aftermarket suspension.

I've personally never owned a bike that didn't benefit from a better suspenders.

Using my last bike,an 04 ZX10R as an example. The stock bike came with a rock hard rear shock and quite soft forks. That combination along with being the lightest production litre sportsbike ever,made it a real handful almost anywhere you used it in anger. The bike gained a reputation as a widowmaker and all that schitt (which gave the bike it's own peculiar fanbase by association) but in reality all the bloody thing needed was a decent rear shock. A little fork work was the icing on the cake,but not as necessary,perhaps.

You could tackle that issue by being Billy Bigballs and proving how much of a man you are by riding the stock bike hard,or you could stick in a shock and enjoy a brilliant,light and responsive bike on road or track without wondering if the thing is going to break your thumbs and buck you off any minute.

The basic problem with a lot of stock bikes suspension is a useable range of adjustability,ie there isn't much. You can have two things.

1. Stiff setup which will do ok for a smooth track.

2. Soft and wallowy,but ok for comfort and relaxed riding.

If you should desire a bike with that elusive middle ground,then in your search you will find the shortcomings of stock suspension. In the middle ground my current bike gave the worst of both worlds.

Compliancy is the magic word for me. You can only get that with proper adjustability. Clicks that actually make a difference.

I was unable to get what I wanted from stock suspenders and that was for the road only. Bouncy castle or hard as a rock. That's yer lot.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Interesting discussion, I am 95kg in riding kit and I think the spring on the rear shock of my GSX-S 750 is a bit too hard for me, I've dropped the pre load from notch 3 to notch 2

And there we have one of the commonest misconceptions about suspension.
Changing the preload alters ride height, that is all!
It doesn't 'soften' the spring or 'firm' it up. It just raises/lowers the seat in relation to the wheel spindle.
Here endeth the lesson!

Only if it's a linear spring.

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

[Couchy]

And there we have one of the commonest misconceptions about suspension.
Changing the preload alters ride height, that is all!
It doesn't 'soften' the spring or 'firm' it up. It just raises/lowers the seat in relation to the wheel spindle.
Here endeth the lesson!

Only if it's a linear spring.

Which it isn't.

The bit about preload only changing ride height is bollocks put about by people who've read it but not tried it, FZR400RRs have ride height adjusters and spring preload adjustment - so according to this theory, adding 20mm of preload would make the bike ride the same as adding 20mm of ride height, it doesn't, with the ride height adjuster the bike steers quicker but otherwise feels pretty much the same, with the added preload, the bike steers quicker, but the rear end feels stiffer sprung, obviously the spring rate hasn't changed, but the spring is compressed more, and you've lost 20mm of travel.

Doesn't it feel stiffer as your rising rate rear suspension is now operating in a different area of it's stroke, i.e. a more rising rate area ?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Doesn't it feel stiffer as your rising rate rear suspension is now operating in a different area of it's stroke, i.e. a more rising rate area ?

Quite possibly, that was the only thing I could think of, that you're changing the geometry in some way and thereby changing the leverage ratios.

[Yorick]

I want to join in, but know bugger all.

But do know that Colin from 100% made my bikes great on the road and track

[Yorick]

I do know that too many folk worry too much about the spring.

Going from a 100 Kg rider to a 110 Kg rider sounds like you need a 10% stronger spring. Wrong.

If the bike weighs 200 Kgs, you're going from 300 kgs to 310 kgs.
A 3% rise.

That's me done

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I want to join in, but know bugger all.

That never stops me

[Yorick]

I want to join in, but know bugger all.

That never stops me

We knew that years ago

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I want to join in, but know bugger all.

That never stops me

We knew that years ago

I treat the forum like a pub where I've had a few pints and now believe that anything I say needs to be said loudly and is vastly interesting, IRL I'm quiet, shy and retiring when sober.