In todays news...

[Saga Lout]

You need to do you sums a bit more carefully and frugally

I've done my sums.

If driving at 85 in a 70 allows for a 10% over-reading speedo, you might want to do them again.

70 + 10% speedo error = 77mph
77 + 10% + 2 mph ACPO* guidelines = 77+ 7.7 + 2 = 86.7 mph.

I don't think I'd want to push my luck that far for very long, but the maths works out.


* Association of Chief Police Officers

[Cousin Jack]

If driving at 85 in a 70 allows for a 10% over-reading speedo, you might want to do them again.

No, it allows for the 10%, and then another 10% because

a) you are then part of the crowd and don't stand out.
b) plod can't be arsed to nick everyone.
c) it is a comfortable and realistic limit.

We should adopt the same for climate change, don't ignore it, but don't beat ourselves up about sticking to unrealistic demands from climate change disciples.

[slowsider]

If driving at 85 in a 70 allows for a 10% over-reading speedo, you might want to do them again.

No, it allows for the 10%, and then another 10% because

a) you are then part of the crowd and don't stand out.
b) plod can't be arsed to nick everyone.
c) it is a comfortable and realistic limit.

We should adopt the same for climate change, don't ignore it, but don't beat ourselves up about sticking to unrealistic demands from climate change disciples.

ANPR

[cheb]

YPVS

[Cousin Jack]

In today's news:

The House of Lords debates assisted dying - again. They won't actually vote on it and the Commons will probably duck it again. Which lobby would you head for: Yeah or Nay?

I'm a Yeah (if the appropriate safeguards are in place to stop avaricious children wheeling Pops off to a Swiss clinic prematurely).

I'm in the yes camp too.

I see that the Church is front and centre in opposing it yet again. Time to change the law on dying, and boot the bishops into touch permanently.

[cheb]

I'm very firmly in the yes camp, and I'm not convinced the doctors should have a say in it, let alone the church. The former can individually decide not to sign anything and the latter have no moral superiority when discussing human suffering.

I might never decide I've had enough of life, but I want the choice to go legally and easily if it suits me to go.

[Count Steer]

In today's news:

The House of Lords debates assisted dying - again. They won't actually vote on it and the Commons will probably duck it again. Which lobby would you head for: Yeah or Nay?

I'm a Yeah (if the appropriate safeguards are in place to stop avaricious children wheeling Pops off to a Swiss clinic prematurely).

I'm in the yes camp too.

I see that the Church is front and centre in opposing it yet again. Time to change the law on dying, and boot the bishops into touch permanently.

I wouldn't stop at just the bishops! I'd turf 'em all out and start again. No hereditaries, no political favours, 5 year fixed term and representative of the country in terms of gender, ethnicity, religion, region and age with ~100 people max. If they represent us, they could at least look representative!

I did note that the current archbish (Welby) is anti (as expected) but an ex-archbish (George Carey) broke ranks and argued for....which was a bit of a surprise.

[Horse]

I've done my sums.

If driving at 85 in a 70 allows for a 10% over-reading speedo, you might want to do them again.

77 + 10% + 2 mph ACPO* guidelines = 77+ 7.7 + 2 = 86.7 mph.

I don't think I'd want to push my luck that far for very long

If ever you do,
1. Video it for YouTube
2. Contest it and go for your day in court

[Screwdriver]

Humans are weird in that the 'right' thing to do seems to be to preserve life, at the cost of quality of life/happiness.

Iirc you were very miserable before your shoulder revision and physio. You've even remarked that the NHS patched you up but medical science elsewhere has got you back on your bike (and contemplating other ways to injure yourself). Can you see where I'm going with this?

I can see where you're going and it's bang out of order. Noggin has the perfect right to express an opinion on such a deeply philosophical conundrum without being "disqualified" due to personal circumstance. A mild or temporary disability is not really in the same topic area as assisted suicide.

I think you're being rude.

[slowsider]

Humans are weird in that the 'right' thing to do seems to be to preserve life, at the cost of quality of life/happiness.

Iirc you were very miserable before your shoulder revision and physio. You've even remarked that the NHS patched you up but medical science elsewhere has got you back on your bike (and contemplating other ways to injure yourself). Can you see where I'm going with this?

I can see where you're going and it's bang out of order. Noggin has the perfect right to express an opinion on such a deeply philosophical conundrum without being "disqualified" due to personal circumstance. A mild or temporary disability is not really in the same topic area as assisted suicide.

I think you're being rude.

Far from disqualifying Noggin, I'm suggesting that people's perception of quality of life can be distorted by an absence of hope. Ive been there. Without knowing what other treatments there are, lack of hope could lead into a depressive spiral. Even without physical injury people can choose to end it.

[Saga Lout]

77 + 10% + 2 mph ACPO* guidelines = 77+ 7.7 + 2 = 86.7 mph.

I don't think I'd want to push my luck that far for very long

If ever you do,
1. Video it for YouTube
2. Contest it and go for your day in court

I don't drive any more so it's not gonna happen.

When I did drive I usually kept my indicated speed within the ACPO guidelines. Most of the vehicles I drove had over-reading speedos so that gave me a little leeway. The only one that I had to be extra careful with was the Honda, that was pretty much spot on.

[Screwdriver]

Far from disqualifying Noggin, I'm suggesting that people's perception of quality of life can be distorted by an absence of hope. Ive been there. Without knowing what other treatments there are, lack of hope could lead into a depressive spiral. Even without physical injury people can choose to end it.

Well nobody ever regretted committing suicide.

[Noggin]

Humans are weird in that the 'right' thing to do seems to be to preserve life, at the cost of quality of life/happiness.

Iirc you were very miserable before your shoulder revision and physio. You've even remarked that the NHS patched you up but medical science elsewhere has got you back on your bike (and contemplating other ways to injure yourself). Can you see where I'm going with this?

Not really, no! See below response to your second comment -

Iirc you were very miserable before your shoulder revision and physio. You've even remarked that the NHS patched you up but medical science elsewhere has got you back on your bike (and contemplating other ways to injure yourself). Can you see where I'm going with this?

I can see where you're going and it's bang out of order. Noggin has the perfect right to express an opinion on such a deeply philosophical conundrum without being "disqualified" due to personal circumstance. A mild or temporary disability is not really in the same topic area as assisted suicide.

I think you're being rude.

Far from disqualifying Noggin, I'm suggesting that people's perception of quality of life can be distorted by an absence of hope. Ive been there. Without knowing what other treatments there are, lack of hope could lead into a depressive spiral. Even without physical injury people can choose to end it.

I was never in a position that my quality of life was such that I would have chosen to end things. Mostly because I have a lot of friends with missing limbs, false limbs, friends in wheelchairs etc etc. If the pain in my shoulder couldn't have been managed, then I'd have told them to remove the arm and I'd learn to live with a false one. People do. There was never a lack of light at the end of the tunnel. It felt dark often, but I knew that there were still options and so no, your suggestion does not match, or even get close to my situation

Mentally I've often wanted to opt out, but I wouldn't ever do that because I have more reason to fight my battles than to quit (and I've seen what someone committing suicide does to those left behind - and been a 'left behind' 3 times. Not an option for me)

My feeling is that a lack of quality of life, where deterioration is the only way, is not something people should be forced to live with. My Grandmother was over 100 when she died. From around 80 she had a lack of hearing, lack of eyesight and in the last 8-10 years serious lack of mobility. She had been an active 70+ year old, playing bridge regularly with friends, living independently, seeing, hearing and talking with friends and family. From around 80 she deteriorated fast on the sight and hearing part, and osteoporosis added pain and a crumbling spine. So for a good 8+ years she lived in almost silence, almost dark and massive amounts of pain - but with all her faculties, so she knew how bad her life was. And no, I don't believe she was happy. But as a family, it wasn't discussed. (TBF, there is a good chance she hung on - or her kids wanted her to hang on - until she was 100 cos she beat my other grandmother and it was always a milestone that was talked about, when she wasn't telling anyone who would listen that 'this' would be her last birthday/christmas/family gathering/trip out etc etc etc)

THAT is the sort of situation I would not want to have forced on me. While I can still do, or enjoy from the sidelines, sports and hobbies I enjoy/love, then no, zero comparison



I do sort of get what point you are trying to make but no it is not even close

[Cousin Jack]

Even without physical injury people can choose to end it.

And they should have the right to do so. A few safeguards to make sure they have enough time to sober up, but if they want out who are you to deny them that?

[slowsider]

@Noggin it wasn't ever intended to be a personal example, but someone not as strong might give up sooner.

[JackyJoll]

Well nobody ever regretted committing suicide.

Strictly speaking no, but...

People who survive a suicide attempt commonly report feeling strong regret while falling from a great height, sinking in the sea, or whatever.

[Saga Lout]

Tesco's website has been down most of the day.

Anybody got a delivery scheduled for tomorrow? Are you panicking yet?

[Noggin]

@Noggin it wasn't ever intended to be a personal example, but someone not as strong might give up sooner.

And TBF, if that's how they feel, they should be allowed to - but also offered help to see if there is a way to turn it around without making that final decision

I remember as a youngster thinking that if I was ever in a wheelchair, then I'd kill myself. Recently my niece made a similar comment in that she couldn't live as a disabled person

For me, I'll always be classified as disabled for work and will never have a fully functioning right arm - BUT - the people I've met long before I've had to deal with all this made me see that there are worse things than disability

It does all boil down to what I said - quality of life. If pain can't be managed (I could well have issues in the future as opiates do NOT work on me, so here's hoping there's something else out there if I ever have major pain again) then that takes away quality of life. BUT - different people have very different tolerances to pain levels. So each person should be allowed to decide. The same goes for disabilities, even eyesight and hearing loss as well as mobility. It isn't possible or right to make a rule to fit all. But each person should be allowed to make that decision, with help. For me it would be more about degenerative issues more than anything. But same goes - every person has different tolerances




I don't actually see myself as strong. For me it's a choice of carry on keeping on or quit. And I made the decision a long time ago that I wouldn't quit - not because I'm strong but because there has to be light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't always on the front of a train!!!

[wheelnut]

Well nobody ever regretted committing suicide.

Strictly speaking no, but...

People who survive a suicide attempt commonly report feeling strong regret while falling from a great height, sinking in the sea, or whatever.

That reminded me of a story my FiL told me years ago. He was working as a ambulance man on an large industrial site in the 70s and was called to a scene where one of the lads threw himself off a pipe bridge with a rope around his neck. He must have changed his mind half way down as some of his fingernails were embedded in the rope where he’d tried to claw his way back up.

[JackyJoll]

That reminded me of a story my FiL told me years ago. He was working as a ambulance man on an large industrial site in the 70s and was called to a scene where one of the lads threw himself off a pipe bridge with a rope around his neck. He must have changed his mind half way down as some of his fingernails were embedded in the rope where he’d tried to claw his way back up.

That’s not a cheerful story.