Covid restrictions - are you adhering or not?

[MrLongbeard]

What if MTBing gives me more benefits in terms of weight/heart/fitness/health over the amounts i take out from breaking bones etc ?

Sorry, but the risk will always be greater than cycling in a safe manner on an exercise bike in the confines of your home, so nasty dangersous outdoor pursuits such as MTBing will forever be banned.

[weeksy]

What if MTBing gives me more benefits in terms of weight/heart/fitness/health over the amounts i take out from breaking bones etc ?

Sorry, but the risk will always be greater than cycling in a safe manner on an exercise bike in the confines of your home, so nasty dangersous outdoor pursuits such as MTBing will forever be banned.

NAh, disagree.... prove it.

[Yambo]

I'll ignore the last bit unless you really want to discuss things in that way....or point out where I was complaining about the current situation.

My apologies.

Your solution: people likely to get sick pay more. So, a woman born with the genetic markers for breast cancer pays more health insurance.

We could spend the next few weeks coming up with people who would be disadvantaged. I'd rather let the civil servants and insurance experts spend that time to come up with workable solutions. If everyone is paying for their own treatment though, those disadvantaged should in theory pay more but the UK is still fundamentally socialist so there's no reason why they couldn't be enrolled in a parallel scheme. As I said, it needs tuning.

No thanks. I'll stick with what we have and 'complain' that it could be made to work better.

What we have also puts people at a disadvantage - lots of them. Sometimes it's down to postcodes, sometimes it's because treatments aren't available on the NHS as a whole and sometimes it's because people like me, a UK taxpayer is not allowed to use the NHS, despite paying towards it.

The NHS was a great idea but it has failed miserably or has been failed miserably. There is a lot wrong with it and it needs sorting. It can't be done overnight and some of that sorting is telling people that they can't keep getting it free at the point of use without making changes to their own lifestyles and expectations. Make 'em pay. Make everyone pay but use the current funding to make sure that they can get what they're having to pay for.

I can't help thinking about the the good old poll tax - a fundamentally fairer and better system that was shouted out of existence by negative people.

[cheb]

A very quick way of funding the NHS and reducing demand would be to have a levy on using the phrase 'If you are in doubt please consult your doctor.' or similar.

[MrLongbeard]

What if MTBing gives me more benefits in terms of weight/heart/fitness/health over the amounts i take out from breaking bones etc ?

Sorry, but the risk will always be greater than cycling in a safe manner on an exercise bike in the confines of your home, so nasty dangersous outdoor pursuits such as MTBing will forever be banned.

NAh, disagree.... prove it.

Common sense init.
Whilst using an exercise bike still poses some of the same hazards as proper bicycles (pulls, strains, heart attacks etc) it removes the moving at speed element, it removes the potential for crashing into people, trees, the ground, it also removes the hazard of travel to and from your preferred tracks, ergo it has to be safer.

[Yambo]

Easy yard stick is whether or not you pay for prescriptions.

But but but fatties with self inflicted type II diabetes get free prescriptions.
No I'm not bitter, just because I have a life long illness which impacts my health detrimentally, and the medical illness list hasn't been looked at properly for yonks and have to pay for my drugs.

Hell, it'd be easier to get NHS funding for gender reassignment surgery than for them to fork out the cost of a Ventolin inhaler

It's an absolute joke. My wife had thyroid issues and was on free prescriptions for everything. Thyroxin is cheap and plentiful so there's no reason to make it free and there's no reason for it to be a qualifier for all prescriptions to be free.

I take an aspirin everyday and in the UK I could/should get it on prescription - but not a free one. I used to simply buy tubs of the little feckers from the chemist in the supermarket 100 tablets for £1 or so because a prescription was fuckin' expensive.

I buy Ventolin inhalers here for my son, they're pennies and available without prescription.

[MrLongbeard]

I buy Ventolin inhalers here for my son, they're pennies and available without prescription.

But can cost well north of $100 per inhaler in America.

[Noggin]

I pay for doc's visits over here (long story but I'm not "in the system") - so each visit is c 25€. I'm fine with that, I can afford it, but then cross fingers I'm reasonably healthy (I do ride bikes though, I probably drink too much cheap wine, I should shed a few pounds, I might have the occasional smoke) at this point.
But obviously there are repercussions if we start talking about paying for long term illnesses, especially those that could be causally linked to my out-of-control hedonistic lifestyle. You get to see the cost price of healthcare over here (they often bill you and then give it right back) and even short hospital stays are eye wateringly expensive.

I am in the system here. Depending on the doctor I see, I do still have to pay - my registered GP in resort is a private practice (because it is in resort) so I have to pay direct - and some specialists charge more than the 'recommended' amount, so I have to pay the difference. But -

What I pay my GP up here is reimbursed, but if I see any doctor or specialist that charges over the odds I have to pay the balance. People keep telling me that taxes are higher here, but it does mean that, with an insurance that costs me approx 35€ a month, my health treatment is mostly 'free'. However it is possible to have a more expensive insurance that covers more so that I could see any specialist and the full cost would be covered

Also, for those under a certain income, there is an insurance that is cheap (or free to really low incomes, so I'm told) so no one has to be left with huge bills like in the States

I think the system works really well. But generally when that sort of system is mentioned as a support to the NHS people have a little head fit about tax or cost or 'the NHS should be free' etc etc.

I don't totally disagree about it being free. But currently the model is not working. I would never have to wait more than a couple of weeks for an MRI or any other sort of treatment (and for the MRI, that would only have a wait of a couple or so weeks at peak holiday times because the area is full of lunatics hurling themselves up, down and off mountains). I've waited months in the uk and that was 10 years ago. Would the NHS be able to offer residential rehab after major surgery? (And that is available to all, not just replacement joints!! One friend was in there for 9 months and is still going in every morning as his treatment isn't over)

The uk attitude to injury/health has ended up being that the NHS will patch someone up so they are 'ok' - not so they are better/healthy/as close to fit as they were pre-treatment. I firmly believe that this is a by product of the NHS not coping and so why wouldn't people want a slightly different system??

Sadly, from what I read, it will probably end up being a US style system which is cruel and not effective

[Cousin Jack]

The French system seems to work really well, apart from a propensity to prescribe most drugs as a suppository. I needed something, I forget what now, in Paris. I could buy it over the counter, but in suppository form. My French is not good, and the pantomine in the pharmacy when I tried to explain I wanted tablets, not suppositories, must have been entertaining.

[Horse]

Over here, politicians exempt from catching covid:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387

Conservative MPs don't need to wear masks during debates because they know each other, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said.

The Commons leader said the party's "convivial, fraternal spirit" meant they were acting in line with government Covid guidance.

This guidance says people in England should cover their faces around "people you don't normally meet".

Over there, police exempt from catching covid:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58989555

Chicago is not alone in facing this problem. Police departments across the US have been stymied in their efforts to coax officers into getting vaccinated against Covid-19 - now the leading cause of death for police in the US, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, a non-profit that tracks police officer deaths.

[slowsider]

The French system seems to work really well, apart from a propensity to prescribe most drugs as a suppository. I needed something, I forget what now, in Paris. I could buy it over the counter, but in suppository form. My French is not good, and the pantomine in the pharmacy when I tried to explain I wanted tablets, not suppositories, must have been entertaining.

Imagine a Frenchie miming the opposite

Non, non, thee aspeereen for thee annoos .

[Supermofo]

Daughter was a little under the weather yesterday so tested her and she was negative. This morning she was right as rain, but rather than just send her to school we all did another test and my son's tested positive He has no symptoms but all off to get a PCR test now. Joy.

[Noggin]

The French system seems to work really well, apart from a propensity to prescribe most drugs as a suppository. I needed something, I forget what now, in Paris. I could buy it over the counter, but in suppository form. My French is not good, and the pantomine in the pharmacy when I tried to explain I wanted tablets, not suppositories, must have been entertaining.

Must be something about you!! I've had a ton of various meds here, home, hospital and rehab, and all have been oral, not suppository!!

[gremlin]

Over there, police exempt from catching covid:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58989555

Chicago is not alone in facing this problem. Police departments across the US have been stymied in their efforts to coax officers into getting vaccinated against Covid-19 - now the leading cause of death for police in the US, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, a non-profit that tracks police officer deaths.

You beat me to it. The irony is off the meter.

Police: "Blue Lives Matter!!"

The state: "Yes they do, here, have a free vaccine that will protect you from the biggest killer of police officers last year"

Police "Fuck off!....Hey! Did I mention that Blue Lives Matter???!!!"

[Supermofo]

The French system seems to work really well, apart from a propensity to prescribe most drugs as a suppository. I needed something, I forget what now, in Paris. I could buy it over the counter, but in suppository form. My French is not good, and the pantomine in the pharmacy when I tried to explain I wanted tablets, not suppositories, must have been entertaining.

Must be something about you!! I've had a ton of various meds here, home, hospital and rehab, and all have been oral, not suppository!!

"Honest love it says I have to shove it up my bum, look it say's there on the cucumber packet. It's all in French but I'm sure that's what it says"

[Noggin]

The French system seems to work really well, apart from a propensity to prescribe most drugs as a suppository. I needed something, I forget what now, in Paris. I could buy it over the counter, but in suppository form. My French is not good, and the pantomine in the pharmacy when I tried to explain I wanted tablets, not suppositories, must have been entertaining.

Must be something about you!! I've had a ton of various meds here, home, hospital and rehab, and all have been oral, not suppository!!

"Honest love it says I have to shove it up my bum, look it say's there on the cucumber packet. It's all in French but I'm sure that's what it says"

"And it cos those darned Fronch tell me I have to do it - honest!!"

[Docca]

Wife and youngest (9) have covid. Rest of us negative at the moment.

Wife is double jabbed. When I took her for her PCR the difference between now and a month ago is alarming. Last month- empty test centre. Could walk straight in.

Yesterday: queues and the talky charts showed they’d been testing about 60 an hour.

Symptoms so far: cough, headache and feel like shit.

[DefTrap]

My older brother (50s, double-jabbed, reasonably careful) has COVIDs too. Symptoms aren't in any way life-threatening AFAIK. (my parents, 80s, fantastically blasé that they could have caught it from him then ... )

Is the message being rammed home that
- yes, you can still get COVIDs if you're jibberjabbed
- at least it probably won't kill you
- either way, try your damnedest not to get it
?

I'm not picking that up from the News but then I've developed terrible COVIDs-News-Myopia recently ..

[weeksy]

I don't think there's any message now. It's just something we live with now, probably with injection assistance of course but it's there/here and it will stay.

I don't see much about it on BBC etc so it's just, there.

[irie]

I don't think there's any message now. It's just something we live with now, probably with injection assistance of course but it's there/here and it will stay.

I don't see much about it on BBC etc so it's just, there.

Couldn't agree more. As Sunetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology at the Department of Zoology, University of Oxford, said:

Waning immunity should not alarm us
Covid 19 is here to stay. But now the vulnerable have been protected against severe disease, restrictions cannot be justified

Many of the measures taken to curb the spread of Covid were justified on the basis that we were dealing with a novel pathogen and therefore had no idea about the nature of immunity to SARS-CoV-2 or the clinical consequences of infection.

The truth is, however, that SARS-CoV-2 belongs to a family of coronaviruses with which we already have some acquaintance. Unlike measles and mumps, these viruses do not induce lifelong immunity to further infection. Instead, herd immunity is maintained through continuous re-infection. Fortunately, immunity to severe disease and death does not decay on the same timescale and so repeat infections are rarely dangerous unless the immune system itself has begun to fail due to old age and other factors.

The presentation of the epidemic in waves across much of the world can be readily explained by the waning of natural immunity against infection on a timescale of six months to a year (which is shorter than I expected) within a background of seasonal variation in transmissibility. It is much harder to ascribe these patterns to the imposition and withdrawal of restrictions on mixing, although these interventions will no doubt have had some effect on specific dynamics.

A short duration of immunity against infection permits us to reconcile the extreme infectiousness of the virus with the apparent absence of a substantial first wave in many settings where it is clear that SARS-CoV-2 had arrived by late 2019/early 2020. In other words, while the proportion immune may well have shot beyond the threshold of herd immunity in late winter (and remained so over the summer), due to the waning of infection-blocking immunity it would have declined sufficiently by autumn for another wave to occur when the conditions favoured a rise. A rapid decay in infection-blocking immunity is what maintains the seasonal increase in infection prevalence in the endemic state; it is also what makes the ride towards this state so very bumpy.

Although current vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 may confer durable immunity against severe disease and death, they only confer a transient and incomplete ability to resist infection. This does not compromise the value of these vaccines in avoiding a high death toll while shepherding us towards an endemic state such as we enjoy with other seasonal coronaviruses. But it does mean that these vaccines should not be viewed as tools of eradication or indeed as an alternative route to this endemic state. The latter would require a permanent dependence on regular mass vaccination which is a much poorer solution (from a resource allocation perspective alone) than allowing an endemic state to establish naturally once those who are vulnerable have been protected.

Neither does the waning of immunity against infection warrant the imposition of restrictions which we now can be certain cause extreme harm to the economically vulnerable and to children and young adults throughout the world. Once the vulnerable have been protected, there is no logic to putting any further resources towards preventing the spread of infection. The vaccines should also have reduced the risk of hospitalisable illness from SARS-CoV-2 infection, thereby protecting the healthcare systems from being overwhelmed. If this is not the case, then we should rapidly invest in building resilience so that the delivery of other forms of healthcare (which should never, in any case, have been deprioritised) is not compromised.

The imposition of restrictions upon the economically disadvantaged effectively transfers to them the costs of our long history of underfunding the NHS. In order to reverse this injustice, we need to increase capacity – although much of that will now be needed to deal with the other pathogens whose transmission was temporarily halted by interventions designed to tackle Covid but are now returning with a vengeance.

In future, we should be more aware of the larger uncertainties regarding the potential of interventions to control pandemics and balance them more wisely against the very real possibility that they may cause harm.

The issue I would take with the above is the assumption that increasing NHS funding will significantly increase front line services. To the contrary, it does seem that increases in funding improve frontline services by perhaps about 10% of the spend, the other 90% being swallowed by the insatiable bureaucracy.