The Brexit thread

[Noggin]

On the passport thing - whilst I prefer to be Irish than English now (since the first vote!), it is almost impossible to do my job on a UK passport even with a residency permit. So even though I planned to get the passport, if I hadn't, then I would have had to or would have had to change jobs

[Count Steer]

If it gets back something that I valued and was taken from me, ie the right to live anywhere in the EU for more than 3 months per year, I'd happily pay to become a dual UK/Estonian, never mind Irish.

[slowsider]

My wife can get an Irish passport but I don't believe in it, we're British and buying passports doesn't sit well with me, if we were moving lock, stock and barrel to Ireland then maybe, but other than that it should be illegal IMHO.

I'm in Ireland at the moment, at my parents house. Mum is Irish, dad is English, I'm entitled to an Irish passport so why not. Wifey is on a British passport but as long as she travels with me she gets the same rights.

If you go through immigration at the airport returning from somewhere forrin like France, won't you have to go through different lanes - GB & EU ?

[Noggin]

I 'think' that for visits, you have to fill in forms but there wouldn't be any VAT payable. However - you would be limited to 90 days in 180 days. Not 90 days in each EU country, but 90 days over all of the EU - it's a rolling 180 days I believe but still a pain in the butt

If you are talking about sailing over to the EU and having residency for the two years, then yes, you could well be right about the VAT - except that I'm pretty sure there will be some agreement that means you don't have to pay the full VAT to bring it back into the UK. I haven't looked into it (cos it doesn't apply to me) but I'm pretty sure there will be some agreement somewhere that covers the return

You'd think common sense would apply but apparently not, I haven't properly looked at it but the yachting community are all talking about it.
I'm told that there is no reciprocal agreement, every time you 'import/export' the boat between the UK and EU (which you will have to do if you want to stay longer) then you pay the duty and VAT.

I'll keep an eye on the Expat sites, but it could be true. Sad as there is an agreement for taxation (wages/income type stuff) so you don't get taxed in both countries

Another big faf for sailing is that you could conceivably sail along the coasts of a few EU countries - but residency in one doesn't allow you to spend more than 90 days in another. So you can get residency in one country (and import the yacht etc) but if you then stop in another, the timing kicks back in for that stay (of course - that counts if customs stamp your passport, so if you can avoid customs, then you can stay a bit longer, sort of!! LOL)

If it gets back something that I valued and was taken from me, ie the right to live anywhere in the EU for more than 3 months per year, I'd happily pay to become a dual UK/Estonian, never mind Irish.

6 months per year. But yeah, still sux cos, at a maximum of 90 days in any 180 day period, it makes choices more difficult

[Noggin]

My wife can get an Irish passport but I don't believe in it, we're British and buying passports doesn't sit well with me, if we were moving lock, stock and barrel to Ireland then maybe, but other than that it should be illegal IMHO.

I'm in Ireland at the moment, at my parents house. Mum is Irish, dad is English, I'm entitled to an Irish passport so why not. Wifey is on a British passport but as long as she travels with me she gets the same rights.

If you go through immigration at the airport returning from somewhere forrin like France, won't you have to go through different lanes - GB & EU ?

I think that, because she is travelling with an EU citizen, she goes through the EU lane as well - partly to avoid her passport getting stamped!

[Count Steer]

If it gets back something that I valued and was taken from me, ie the right to live anywhere in the EU for more than 3 months per year, I'd happily pay to become a dual UK/Estonian, never mind Irish.

It has nothing to do with the place, it's a principle about swapping and changing passports and I don't think it should be allowed unless you're from there or going to live there, or you intend to spend a lot of time there if you have family there.

Having a parent there and getting a passport so you can travel freely and stay as long as you like is fair enough, but getting one because a relative you might not ever have met was from there and you don't intend to live or spend significant amounts of time there doesn't sit right with me.

Each to their own though, it's my choice.

Strictly speaking, the Irish question would appear to be your wife's choice in this particular case.

(As it is in mine).

[Yorick]

If you bring a vehicle over here, there's a tax to pay. I think it based on about 1/3 of the value.

If it's new, you pay 100% of it. Then it's a sliding scale down to 10% if 10 years old.

[Noggin]

I'll keep an eye on the Expat sites, but it could be true. Sad as there is an agreement for taxation (wages/income type stuff) so you don't get taxed in both countries

I know it sounds weird because you've been used to the EU, but it's just the same as moving things from anywhere. I bought a bike in the UK, all duty/taxes paid, then exported it to here and had to pay all duty/taxes again that were due here. Then I considered moving it back to the UK after a couple of years but I would have had to pay all duty/taxes again importing it back into the UK, so I just sold it here.

Same when I bought bikes in Japan, taxes in Japan, then taxes here and then taxes when I eventually bought them to the UK.
My TDR250 cost me £1500 in Japan six years ago, but it owes me over £5k in shipping and taxes between the three countries.

There are a couple of legal ways to move stuff without paying taxes, but it depends on the circumstances and none will suit me.

Oh no, I get why and the wherefores n stuff. (I worked in logistics shopping stuff worldwide, and whilst it wasn't a major issue, I have a bit of an understanding)

I just get a bit pissed off about it being at all necessary now after all the talk of a great deal with the EU.

Like the driving licence fiasco. We had 3-4 months of not being 'allowed' to apply to change to a French licence because there had been no reciprocal agreement set up within the Brexit no-deal. Other countries had agreements so possibly the French just didn't point out that there wasn't one for France. Or the Brits sorting the paperwork forgot. Who knows. It sucked big time. (I still can't apply because my licence is valid until the end of next year and due to the huge amount of exchanges happening - partly due to the 3-4 month delay - they won't let you apply until you only have 6 months left on your photocard)

The tax thing is something that IMO should have been sorted as part of a 'Deal'. There is an agreement on tax for earnings/income and even for health care if travelling to the UK; so why didn't anyone think of similar for belongings? I know I have to pay import charges for the Monster, but I don't intend to take it back to the UK, so that's ok. But for someone moving back, they've already paid VAT in both countries, so how can it be justified that they have to pay again?

And yes, it has been happening for years for other countries - but I really do just fail to understand why no one added this sort of thing to the thought process when the 'sort of' deal was being struck??

[Noggin]

I'm never moving back!! LOL Visiting is mostly ok. But not ever going to live there!! LOL

[DefTrap]

Bringing in an auld Monster to France it'll be more like registration tax, import tax will be eff all.

[Noggin]

Bringing in an auld Monster to France it'll be more like registration tax, import tax will be eff all.

I hope so. I wasn't organised to sort the Quittas Fiscal before december (rehab etc!) and can't prove it was here - I will have one more go as it Was here! Got to ask a friend if he's willing to write an Attestation that the bike was in his garage (as a non runner) before December and find the ferry ticket for when I brought it over in the van!! But I'll almost certainly have to go talk to customs. Avoiding it at the mo as, I have other paperwork to source first anyway, and I don't have 20% of eff all anyway!!

Registration tax will be low because it has very little power!!

[DefTrap]

I hope so. I wasn't organised to sort the Quittas Fiscal before december (rehab etc!) and can't prove it was here - I will have one more go as it Was here! Got to ask a friend if he's willing to write an Attestation that the bike was in his garage (as a non runner) before December and find the ferry ticket for when I brought it over in the van!! But I'll almost certainly have to go talk to customs. Avoiding it at the mo as, I have other paperwork to source first anyway, and I don't have 20% of eff all anyway!!

Registration tax will be low because it has very little power!!

You don't need a quittus fiscal any more (this is the only post-brexit change I believe), so yeah it gets inspected by the customs people, who will probably just issue you a certificate to say that it is what it is and no -import- tax is due. But the customs people actually want to see it - my nearest place is an hour away .... and I dunno if it's slightly different for bikes as opposed to cars and vans. It's effing difficult to communicate with the ANTS people now that all this is mainly online rather than over the counter.

[Noggin]

I hope so. I wasn't organised to sort the Quittas Fiscal before december (rehab etc!) and can't prove it was here - I will have one more go as it Was here! Got to ask a friend if he's willing to write an Attestation that the bike was in his garage (as a non runner) before December and find the ferry ticket for when I brought it over in the van!! But I'll almost certainly have to go talk to customs. Avoiding it at the mo as, I have other paperwork to source first anyway, and I don't have 20% of eff all anyway!!

Registration tax will be low because it has very little power!!

You don't need a quittus fiscal any more (this is the only post-brexit change I believe), what you need instead is to have it inspected by the customs people, who will probably just issue you a certificate to say that it is what it is and no -import- tax is due. But the customs people actually want to see it - my nearest place is an hour away .... and I dunno if it's slightly different for bikes as opposed to cars and vans. It's effing difficult to communicate with the ANTS people now that all this is mainly online rather than over the counter.

Oh totally. But - as it was actually here before December, I'm going to try and get the QF because then I don't have to pay the import charges (not all prefectures are still doing QFs but apparently 73 'might'!)

Downside of customs is that it now looks rather lovely (mostly!) so I doubt they'll believe it only cost £200!! LOL I can borrow a vehicle to get it to customs. I'll get the CoC first and see DREAL and then try and see the douanes on the same day - maybe!! LOL

[irie]

If moving back to the UK will scupper your tax evasion plans I'd suggest getting the Irish passport.

It's not tax evasion, AFAIK if you sail a yacht backwards and forwards between the UK and EU and spend too much time in any one place then you have to pay duties and VAT on the yacht every time you move. So if I buy a UK yacht and pay VAT, then I come to the EU in it for two years I pay EU duties and VAT as well, then I come back to the UK and pay duties and VAT, over and over.

I'm not Irish and neither is my wife, nor do we intend to domicile there permanently, I don't believe in taking passports for countries that you weren't born in or intend to live in.
You don't have to agree with me, it's just my principle.

I have British/Canadian dual nationality (I was born in England to a Canadian mother and British father). Do you think that in principle there would anything wrong with me having a Canadian passport?

[DefTrap]

It has nothing to do with the place, it's a principle about swapping and changing passports and I don't think it should be allowed unless you're from there or going to live there, or you intend to spend a lot of time there if you have family there.

Having a parent there and getting a passport so you can travel freely and stay as long as you like is fair enough, but getting one because a relative you might not ever have met was from there and you don't intend to live or spend significant amounts of time there doesn't sit right with me.

Each to their own though, it's my choice.

Meh, I'd have multiple passports if it made my life easier.

Absolutely I have zero interest in 'being Irish' or living in Ireland but I think I qualify (if I can find the right docs) so possibly I might get one - currently I'm not that bothered though as the residency permit system suits me well enough. It's hampered my chances (a bit) of just winging it off to Greece, or Spain or somewhere else I haven't thought of yet. If I had a French passport I'd never be French no matter how hard I try and how long I live here. Both my boys are fluent in French language and culture and could pass as French (apart from being giants) but, again, they never will be passport or no passport.

So, for me the passport system is silly. I'm a European and a drifter at heart and if it was easier for me to drift farther afield I would. All it means for me is that if everything goes tits up I can throw myself on the mercy of the UK and they have to look after me. Nobody's asked me to relinquish my UK passport due to sustained absence after all.

[irie]

If you are lawfully entitled to a passport which will enable you to go where you want, then why not? I'm not sniffy about passports.

PS I'm a European who has choosen to live in the UK.

[DefTrap]

Nah if you're British youre a Brit, that's it now. You can dream all you like but the paperwork says no.

Fin.

[irie]

Nah if you're British youre a Brit, that's it now. You can dream all you like but the paperwork says no.

Fin.

Nice try at trying to conflate being European with being an EU citizen.

The British are European as are, for example, the Swiss also European.

Did you know that Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Reunion, Mayotte and Saint Martin also fall under the territory of the European Union?

[Horse]

Don't get into the Eurovision Song Contest FFS

[irie]

If you are lawfully entitled to a passport which will enable you to go where you want, then why not? I'm not sniffy about passports.

It's a good job you weren't wandering around France at the end of WW2 with that attitude, they'd have shaved your head and paraded you through the streets

Not like you to intentionally miss the point.

Oh.