SMARTening motorways

[Horse]

Brakes? And stopping distances?

No, but if she's in her 80s she probably learned when there was a national no-limit and brakes didn't have servos!

Very true. But the point was about changes to the Highway Code, not engineering.

[Scootabout]

Mini roundabouts. Now MUST go round unless physically can't. I think it used to be less strong than that.

[Scootabout]

And isn't there a load of stuff in the pipeline about a hierarchy of road users? Or is that just consultation?

[Scootabout]

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/changes ... de-updates

(Maybe note exactly radical...)

[The Spin Doctor]

Rather bizarrely, the RAC has just come out against all-lane running with no hard shoulder...

...but backed the use of the 'dynamic' on-off-on again use of the hard shoulder at peak hours, claiming it would lesson confusion.

I struggle to see how - trying to drive round Birmingham (one of the bits of the UK I am least familiar with) whilst working out which sections were closed and which were open - and on one occasion adapting to one that was open suddenly closing - was a ruddy nightmare on a pissy horrible wet day.

Sometimes I think the AA and the RAC just have to be seen to be taking a position on issues like this, to keep themselves in the public eye.

[Horse]

Rather bizarrely, the RAC has just come out against all-lane running with no hard shoulder...

...but backed the use of the 'dynamic' on-off-on again use of the hard shoulder at peak hours, claiming it would lesson confusion.

I struggle to see how -

Agreed. After umpteen years of not deliberately crossing a solid white line, I found it hard to drive down a slip road then along the hard shoulder.

Bizarre statement by them.

[GuzziPaul]

Mini roundabouts. Now MUST go round unless physically can't. I think it used to be less strong than that.

Got me worried for a minute there just had to reread TSRGD 2016, still don't have to go around miniroundabouts unless there is a more recent update.

Part 7 Paragraph 5
(b) a vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the white circle at the centre of the marking provided for at item 5 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule (“the diagram 1003.4 marking”), unless the size of the vehicle or the layout of the junction makes it impracticable to do so;

It doesn't say large vehicle and what is impracticble, on a bike with a wet or greasy road it may impracticable to lean a bike over to go round.
Had a read of the Traffic Signs Manual as well and no mention there.

[Scootabout]

Mini roundabouts. Now MUST go round unless physically can't. I think it used to be less strong than that.

Got me worried for a minute there just had to reread TSRGD 2016, still don't have to go around miniroundabouts unless there is a more recent update.

Part 7 Paragraph 5
(b) a vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the white circle at the centre of the marking provided for at item 5 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule (“the diagram 1003.4 marking”), unless the size of the vehicle or the layout of the junction makes it impracticable to do so;

It doesn't say large vehicle and what is impracticble, on a bike with a wet or greasy road it may impracticable to lean a bike over to go round.
Had a read of the Traffic Signs Manual as well and no mention there.

Well that is indeed interesting, as it contradicts what's in the HWC:

"Rule 188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so."

[GuzziPaul]

It most certainly does, however the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Directions is law and what you get prosecuted against. Whereas the Highway Code is guidance and an interpretation of TSRGD, the Traffic Signs Manual (TSM) and the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges (DMRB), for people who don't want to spend a lifetime reading a lot of fine detail.

One thing I did find interesting was the use of "must" in the HC, DMRB defines the priorities of Must, Shall, Should, and May. Within DMRB "must" is law, which is what attracted my attention to the HC. I'll have to use my work laptop and check for any TSRGD updates and its not like there arn't mistakes in any large documents.

[The Spin Doctor]

It most certainly does, however the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Directions is law and what you get prosecuted against. Whereas the Highway Code is guidance and an interpretation of TSRGD, the Traffic Signs Manual (TSM) and the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges (DMRB), for people who don't want to spend a lifetime reading a lot of fine detail.

One thing I did find interesting was the use of "must" in the HC, DMRB defines the priorities of Must, Shall, Should, and May. Within DMRB "must" is law, which is what attracted my attention to the HC. I'll have to use my work laptop and check for any TSRGD updates and its not like there arn't mistakes in any large documents.

Be interested to see what you come up with.

[GuzziPaul]

I've had a look and the only update I can find to TSRGD 2016 was in 2017, a document I was already aware of. And if you realy wanted to be picky there is also a right and wrong way to install the white and blue mini roundabout signs.

Question. If three vehicles arrive at a miniroundabout at the same time who has to give way first?

For those of you with several hours to kill
https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2017.pdf
https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf

[Cousin Jack]

The smallest one, unless it is red. Red always has priority.

[Mussels]

I've had a look and the only update I can find to TSRGD 2016 was in 2017, a document I was already aware of. And if you realy wanted to be picky there is also a right and wrong way to install the white and blue mini roundabout signs.

Question. If three vehicles arrive at a miniroundabout at the same time who has to give way first?

For those of you with several hours to kill
https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2017.pdf
https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf

Answer - me because everyone round here is so nice and careful we'd be sitting there for ever.

[Horse]

Rather bizarrely, the RAC has just come out against all-lane running with no hard shoulder...

...but backed the use of the 'dynamic' on-off-on again use of the hard shoulder at peak hours, claiming it would lesson confusion.

I struggle to see how -

Agreed. After umpteen years of not deliberately crossing a solid white line, I found it hard to drive down a slip road then along the hard shoulder.

Bizarre statement by them.

I've just read an article which suggests that what RAC actually want is motorways with hard shoulders, with full managed motorways kit too.

[GuzziPaul]

Thought I'd stick this here rather then on the 60 Second Safety Video. Anyone know why mini roundabouts are the size they are? And by the way they should only be installed on 3 arm junctions.

[The Spin Doctor]

Geometric design of a mini-roundabout
5.1 The maximum ICD of a mini-roundabout shall be 28 metres.
NOTE Main requirements and advice for the geometric design of all roundabouts are provided in Section 3.
5.1.1 For mini-roundabouts with two entry lanes the width of the circulatory carriageway should enable cars
to travel two abreast around the white circle.
Mini-roundabout central islands
5.2 The white circle of a mini-roundabout shall have a maximum of 4 metres diameter and positioned using
the inside of the swept path of cars.
NOTE A mini-roundabout does not have a kerbed central island. In its place is a flush or domed circular solid
white road marking capable of being driven over where unavoidable by large vehicles or where the
layout of the junction makes it impractical to do so. The circular marking can be edged with kerbs
provided the maximum height above the road surface at the perimeter does not exceed 6mm.
5.2.1 Where a white circle with a full diameter of 4 metres is not achievable on a mini-roundabout, a white
circle with a diameter as large as possible between 1 metre and 4 metres should be provided.
NOTE A larger diameter up to the maximum 4 metres can improve conspicuity of the central marking.
5.3 Additional circular rings shall not be added around the white circle of a mini-roundabout.
5.4 The centre of the design vehicle path shall be at least 1 metre from kerbs, the perimeter of the white
circle, and from any road marking separating opposing traffic.
NOTE Figures 5.4Na and 5.4Nb provide examples of how the design vehicle path and white circle location of
a mini-roundabout are determined using swept paths.

https://www.sthelens.gov.uk/media/33012 ... -web-2.pdf

[GuzziPaul]

Or originally the size of a tractor tyre painted white

[Lutin]

MPs call for five year delay in all-lane smart motorways

The introduction of "all-lane" smart motorways should be halted until their safety can be ensured, MPs have warned.

The schemes use the hard shoulder as a permanent live traffic lane to increase capacity - but critics say this has contributed to deaths on the roads.

In a report, the Commons' Transport Select Committee said there was not enough safety and economic data to justify continuing with the plans.

The Department for Transport said it would consider the recommendations.

[Horse]

MPs call for five year delay in all-lane smart motorways

The introduction of "all-lane" smart motorways should be halted until their safety can be ensured, MPs have warned.

The schemes use the hard shoulder as a permanent live traffic lane to increase capacity - but critics say this has contributed to deaths on the roads.

In a report, the Commons' Transport Select Committee said there was not enough safety and economic data to justify continuing with the plans.

The Department for Transport said it would consider the recommendations.

And further in the BBC article:

Demonstrators protesting against smart motorways marched with coffins to the Houses of Parliament on Monday. Relatives of those killed on smart motorways have called for the hard shoulder to be permanently reinstalled after a number of incidents in which broken down vehicles were hit from behind.

The committee said it was was "not convinced" that such a policy would boost safety.

It concluded: "The evidence suggests that doing so could put more drivers and passengers at risk of death and serious injury. Controlled smart motorways - which only use the hard shoulder as a live traffic lane during peak periods - have the "lowest casualty rates" of all roads across motorways and major A roads in England.

From my PoV, variable hard shoulders are the most confusing for drivers.

[Horse]

https://www.saferhighways.co.uk/post/na ... 2e3ca54ab5

Balfour Beatty is the first to be hit with National Highways confirming that its team on the M3 Smart motorway project should be stood down.

The civil engineering arm had built work compounds in Hampshire and was about to start phase one work on upgrading the central reservation barrier between junction 9 and 14. But National Highways chiefs have written to Balfour stating they would now be ‘temporarily postponing’ the planned start of the £140m project.

In a statement to member firms in the Smart Motorway Programme Alliance, National Highways confirmed the phased openings of completed sections of the M1 J13-16, M6 J13-15 and the M4 J8/9-12 would proceed as planned over the next few weeks.