Decision, which Whyte?

[Taff]

I was going to buy an Africa Twin this year...practically a done deal until work made it clear that WFH is going to be a long term thing and I worked out that my tiger has only done circa 300 miles this year, down from up to 250 a week in commuting.

so there's a chunk of budget available for a new eMTB

I think I've narrowed down to a choice of 2

The Whyte e150s or the e160s.

they are pretty much identical in spec other than the 150 being a 29er & 150mm, and the 160 being a 27.5 and 160mm travel.

I've never ridden a 29er or ever ridden rockshocks & Sram so it feels a bit like leaping into the unknown.
150 is orange, 160 is blue

[MingtheMerciless]

29er all the way for me if it was my choice, they roll so much better than 650b (27.1 according to the man from TREK, its not 27.5).

Mrs M has had two ebikes, a Cube Stereo 140 with 650b and the Levo which is full 29. The Levo just rides so much better. Downsides are that it does suffer on really tight nadgery stuff but we don't have much of that locally but the bigger wheel climbs out of ruts much better and absolutely flies down hill.

It can take a few rides to get used to the extra steerage required to make a 29er work compared to the smaller wheel sizes so if you do test ride make sure its a long one.

[Taff]

I'll be buying from Ace in Monmouth and they offer this on their website...

Option Two:
Cost: £200 refundable against a bike purchase.

Time: This tends to take from 4 – 6 hours.

This is a 1-on-1 riding session with Tobias or Gareth, the shop owners, who have a wealth of experience setting up suspension and bikes with customers on a personal level from years either working for Fox Suspension or British Cycling.

Trust us, they have a very keen eye for detail!

We will meet you at the Pedalabikeaway Cycle Centre, in the Forest of Dean.

We can also discuss the option of bringing up to two or more demo bikes at a time to allow for back to back testing. Throughout the session they then ride with you watching the way you ride to help fine tune setup to you exactly. These settings are then all noted and transferred into your new/current bike so from day one it rides exactly how it did on the demo ride.

I think that I prefer short travel - my cannondale is 130mm and I love the way that it rides - so it'll be a very interesting test ride

[weeksy]

Weirdly one of the lads Demod an e160 and hated it bit loved the e180.

If buying a big power Eeb there's really no reason to not go big on suspension is there?

[Rp1]

Have the e160 and can't fault it now it's running a 170mm shaft and the 2.1 damper kit In the front end, Meg neg and the shape it up link in the rear, before they were fitted I was getting a lot pedal strikes and grounding the bottom of the bike out, not sure if the e150 would have the same problems with it running 29ers and possibly sitting a bit higher, ride with a couple of guys who have 29ers ebikes and on flat ground the definitely seem to have an easier/faster natural pace than mine, but then on tighter technical stuff mine seems to work a bit better, which ever one you get I'm sure you will enjoy it loads

[Mr Moofo]

Well, it is all personal opinion, Weeksy will have you on the 27.5 but ....

Heres my theory - the taller you are the more 29 inch wheels make sense - its all about proportion.
I Have a 26er, and 27.5 and a 29er ... they are all completely different bikes
The 27.5 is hard tail and have been thinking of changing it ( I am waiting the the Covid pricing of bike frames changes) to a 29er.
I am about 189 cm tall - hence 29 inch wheels just seem to work better. They feel faster, they feel like I am rolling quicker. That said, they do steer slower but for 98% of us that is not too much on an issue.
My ( manual) FS is 130 mm upfront and 120 at the back. I ride about 70-80 kms on the Downs a week - and occasionally Surrey Hills ( )

TBH , I very rarely use all the suspension travel - but I am not a jumping gaps sort of person.
Both 150 /160 are a lot of travel - I doubt very much you will every use that. If it was manual, then you are just lugging around extra weight , but on a e bike that won't really matter.
On a manual it would make it wandery up hills - but on an e bike that isn't really an issue.

Weeksy will be along to disagree
I have ridden the Whyte 160 e-bike. It is like riding monster truck - you will never have to make an effort up a hill again...

[Taff]

Weirdly one of the lads Demod an e160 and hated it bit loved the e180.

If buying a big power Eeb there's really no reason to not go big on suspension is there?

Pretty much what Mr Moo said really, I think that 150/160 is overkill for my riding never mind going 180. As I said, I love my dale with its 130, I've never felt that it needs more in 2.5 years.

In reality, half the reason for getting another eeb is so that MiniTaff will came riding with me more, he can have the dale and no excuse when I kick his arse .

The test ride will be telling.

[weeksy]

Well, it is all personal opinion, Weeksy will have you on the 27.5 but ....

Heres my theory - the taller you are the more 29 inch wheels make sense - its all about proportion.
I Have a 26er, and 27.5 and a 29er ... they are all completely different bikes
The 27.5 is hard tail and have been thinking of changing it ( I am waiting the the Covid pricing of bike frames changes) to a 29er.
I am about 189 cm tall - hence 29 inch wheels just seem to work better. They feel faster, they feel like I am rolling quicker. That said, they do steer slower but for 98% of us that is not too much on an issue.
My ( manual) FS is 130 mm upfront and 120 at the back. I ride about 70-80 kms on the Downs a week - and occasionally Surrey Hills ( )

TBH , I very rarely use all the suspension travel - but I am not a jumping gaps sort of person.
Both 150 /160 are a lot of travel - I doubt very much you will every use that. If it was manual, then you are just lugging around extra weight , but on a e bike that won't really matter.
On a manual it would make it wandery up hills - but on an e bike that isn't really an issue.

Weeksy will be along to disagree
I have ride the Whyte 160 e-bike. It is like riding monster truck - you will never have to make an effort up a hill again...

Lol I'm not opinionated on the 27.5/29 debate, I know my preference and that's good enough for me, but I'd never force my opinion on anyone.

[MingtheMerciless]

And weirdly both Mrs M and I are 5ft6 so on the shorter side but we both prefer 29ers.

And then there is the "mullet" with 650b rear and 29er front, the idea being you can have shorter chain stays and a shorter wheelbase and gain some manoeuvrability over a 29er but with the advantage of a 29er front wheel for going over the lumps. I'm not convinced as I haven't ridden one but a mate who works at the LBS has, prefers whole 29ers.

[millemille]

@Couchy and @porter_jamie are both Whyte e-mtb owners so can comment first hand.

I can report, from riding with both of them quite a few times, that as standard - as @Rp1 says - they have a very low BB height (as did the 3x Whyte Amish HT's and FS's I owned before falling down the electric rabbit hole) and suffer with pedal strikes and the like but both of them have fitted lift/long travel kits and @porter_jamie's bike definitely didn't suffer on the last Peak District ride we did.

The battery retention/mounting on the Whyte's looks a bit shit IMO. On both my current Focus and the previous Trek Powerfly it was a matter of a few seconds work to unlock the battery and replace it, but the Whyte requires the bike to be upside down and small allen keys to be used. The charging point location also sucks IMO, on the Focus it's on the top of the top tube behind the headset and covered with a rubber flap but on the Whyte it's down low and seems susceptible to getting clagged in shit.

With regards to 29" vs 27.5", the first time I rode a 29er emtb (a Trek Rail) it was a good way into the ride (@porter_jamie was with me at the time and can attest to this) before I realised it was a big wheel bike. I had expected a 29er to feel like you were perched on the back of badly trained giraffe, all teetery and tottery and remote and isolated from what was going on, but it couldn't have been further from that. The Focus was a 29er out of the box and is now a mullet and I could definitely feel the difference and it's not because of any change in chainstay length as it's unchanged. I'm pretty sure it's because the arc that the front and rear wheels describe as the bike leans and turns are different and the back of the bike is forced into a tighter line than the front and this really pushes the back wheel to steer and change line, there's a good reason MX bikes have had a mullet set up for years. The bike is much more agile and able to change line while rattling down rough stuff at a good clip.

Suspension travel is very much a personal choice and dictated, IMO, by where you ride the majority of the time. My first emtb was a Trek Powerfly with 150mm of travel and it just wasn't enough for Peak District riding with me on board. The Focus is 170mm front and rear and I'm using all of that (and that's not jumping, it's because big downhills and big drops). While an electric motor does mitigate the extra sag and energy loss from having mega suspension travel it doesn't eliminate it and you'll pay the price somewhere else like range.

Any particular reason @Taff you're going for Whyte as a brand?

[Taff]

Thanks guys for the really comprehensive answers

Why the Whyte?
Well there's a couple of reasons really, one is that it's a brand that really appeals, everyone that I've spoken to on the trails love theirs, reviews are all really good and only really noting the battery removal as a negative, (that's not really much of a problem as I've got power in the outbuildings)
And last of all is availability, the lbs has got these or specialized and I've never been a spesh fanboy

[weeksy]

Thanks guys for the really comprehensive answers

Why the Whyte?
Well there's a couple of reasons really, one is that it's a brand that really appeals, everyone that I've spoken to on the trails love theirs, reviews are all really good and only really noting the battery removal as a negative, (that's not really much of a problem as I've got power in the outbuildings)
And last of all is availability, the lbs has got these or specialized and I've never been a spesh fanboy

Whyte often win awards on "trailbike of.." really really often.

[millemille]

If you've got a good LBS that supports the brand, and particularly the motor and battery and controller, then that's half the battle won.

The only real issue I have with Whyte is their lack of buying power, when compared to the behemoth's like Trek and Specialized, means they don't always represent as good value for money as the bigger brands when you look at the specification of the components they fit.

I was out with a guy off the emtb forum last week and he was on a rinky dink Specialised emtb that cost over £11k out of the shop and I looked at it couldn't see where the money had gone, sure it had wireless shifting and dropper and I suspect the shock spring was titanium but £11k? Really?

[weeksy]

Yeah Whytes are sometimes slightly lower spec than a few of the big boys, but certainly in their proper bikes they're usually less expensive than their boutique counterparts too.

I was out getting destroyed by a fat smoker old bloke on his e180 yesterday. Only on tech and tough stuff could I gap him, everywhere else he killed me! Lol

[millemille]

Yeah Whytes are sometimes slightly lower spec than a few of the big boys, but certainly in their proper bikes they're usually less expensive than their boutique counterparts too.

Yeti have released their first emtb, a 160mm travel enduro bike - allegedly designed for racing in E-EWS - and the production version with a very ordinary spec is around eleven grand....

[Taff]

If you've got a good LBS that supports the brand, and particularly the motor and battery and controller, then that's half the battle won.

My Cannondale came from Rutland, and when I had to send it back for a new motor the system in place to actually do it was easy and painless, the issue only came when I realised that they had changed the motor but not updated the software (I've never had emtb mode), but I couldn't be arsed to send it back again.

TBH, for 5.5k I though that the spec is pretty decent although I'm far less familiar with SRAM / Rockshocks than I am Shimano / Fox. Being 12speed does niggle me a bit because those cassettes are damned expensive to replace every 800 miles (ish).

On the Bottom bracket height, google recons than the Bb height is identical to my Cannondale at 13.7" / 347mm, so unless there's something about the Whyte that makes it sit lower than my cannondale with weight on the pedals I can't see there being an issue. Obviously the test ride will tell me more about this.

edit - the V1 had a bb height of 330mm, the v2 that I'm looking at is a little higher at 347mm

[millemille]

If you've got a good LBS that supports the brand, and particularly the motor and battery and controller, then that's half the battle won.

My Cannondale came from Rutland, and when I had to send it back for a new motor the system in place to actually do it was easy and painless, the issue only came when I realised that they had changed the motor but not updated the software (I've never had emtb mode), but I couldn't be arsed to send it back again.

TBH, for 5.5k I though that the spec is pretty decent although I'm far less familiar with SRAM / Rockshocks than I am Shimano / Fox. Being 12speed does niggle me a bit because those cassettes are damned expensive to replace every 800 miles (ish).

On the Bottom bracket height, google recons than the Bb height is identical to my Cannondale at 13.7" / 347mm, so unless there's something about the Whyte that makes it sit lower than my cannondale with weight on the pedals I can't see there being an issue. Obviously the test ride will tell me more about this.

edit - the V1 had a bb height of 330mm, the v2 that I'm looking at is a little higher at 347mm

Which 12 spd SRAM cassette is it? 'Cos mine (PG-1230 Eagle 11-50) is gnats cock under a ton to buy which I don't think is too bad, and could be a lot worse. The Powerfly originally came with an ebike specific cassette and that was over £400 to buy!

Are those BB height numbers laden or unladen? Are you sure you're comparing like for like?

[Mr Moofo]

The Whyte battery release /mount has been criticised - but never having looked at them that closely, I can comment.
MM's comment about LBS local support would be a key driver for me.

[Taff]

Which 12 spd SRAM cassette is it? 'Cos mine (PG-1230 Eagle 11-50) is gnats cock under a ton to buy which I don't think is too bad, and could be a lot worse. The Powerfly originally came with an ebike specific cassette and that was over £400 to buy!

Are those BB height numbers laden or unladen? Are you sure you're comparing like for like?

AH, I hadn't realised that the 'Eagle' bit had a broad range, it's a SRAM PG-1210 Eagle, 11-50, 12 Speed which as you say is available for less than a ton

both those figures are unladen as far as I can see

[millemille]

Which 12 spd SRAM cassette is it? 'Cos mine (PG-1230 Eagle 11-50) is gnats cock under a ton to buy which I don't think is too bad, and could be a lot worse. The Powerfly originally came with an ebike specific cassette and that was over £400 to buy!

Are those BB height numbers laden or unladen? Are you sure you're comparing like for like?

AH, I hadn't realised that the 'Eagle' bit had a broad range, it's a SRAM PG-1210 Eagle, 11-50, 12 Speed which as you say is available for less than a ton

both those figures are unladen as far as I can see

So the Whyte will be at least 10mm lower due to longer travel suspension having more sag if nothing else when the bike is stationary with you sitting on it, and then when the suspension is working the bottom bracket can end up 30mm lower...