Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Dead end IMO.

If only cause they'll be 2 or 3 times the running cost. Who's gonna buy that?

Then throw in the fact its relatively easy to make a 1000bhp electric car - even if its fuel cell powered - but making a 1000bhp ICE is a big undertaking. Now obviously not every car is gonna be 1000bhp but it demonstrates the point.

ICE powertrains take up way more space, cost more to maintain and makes noises and smells. Now of course people like the noise, but not all the time.

You're right that you can make hydrogen ICE using technology closer to current engines. But everyone is rebooting anyway, so if anything you'd spend more doubling up.

So you can have the car with a big boot, which does 100mpg and has 1000bhp. Or you can have the one which doesn't. Which one is going to sell?

[Count Steer]

Mr Dazzle, as our tame expert - I read that pure electric is likely to be a stop-gap and the smart money is going into hydrogen cell/electric hybrids. It would solve a lot of problems with range and 'refill' times. Thoughts?

Some serious issues with some methods of hydrogen fuel production.
This covers so called "Blue Hydrogen" production which is split from.... fossil fuel



The hydrogen produced by splitting water however seems a far better prospect but Shell is less inclined to jump headlong into its production.

Yebbut, Shell have a lot of sunk assets producing hydrocarbons inc. methane and not a lot of green electricity. They're also, historically, one of the least ethical producers so I wouldn't use them as a bellwether*.

*Which I now find is a leading boss sheep with a bell on. You live and learn.

[Mr. Dazzle]

At the moment the smart money is on energy storage rather than energy at the point of demand.

As above, due to efficiency improvement elsewhere....lighting being a really big one....total electricity demand has dropped singinficantly in the last 15 years. Even if everyone went EV tomorrow we still wouldn't exceed the total usage from the early 00s.

The problem is the peaks and troughs. So we need storage on the grid more than we need overall capacity.

That's another reason battery cars will be popular, they'll be used as grid storage. To make that happen an incentive will be attached - cheaper power if you plug in at certain times and let the grid borrow your car etc.

Edit: Talking about the UK and similar countries here BTW. Total usage is going up in developing countries for the reasons you'd expect.

[Count Steer]

So you can have the car with a big boot, which does 100mpg and has 1000bhp. Or you can have the one which doesn't. Which one is going to sell?

The cheap one?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Edit: Talking about the UK and similar countries here BTW. Total usage is going up in developing countries for the reasons you'd expect.

It goes back to the original question, if you had the money would you buy one?
Most don't, yet.

More than half the new cars sold in Norway are electric. Scandinavia is usually the leader on this sort of thing - Denmark was the first country to have days of 100% renewable power IIRC - but still, it's a good indication that the future is closer than people might think.

I know someone is going to turn around and say "thats only because the Norwegian government incentivises EVs", which is true. But who elected the Norwegian government? You can't even blame the EU.

[slowsider]

So I’ve turned one-pedal drive on. Takes some getting used to; the car brakes when you take your foot off the accelerator. Quite like it- feels more like a go kart

With their app, you can also warm the car up before you get in it. No use in September, but cold winter mornings should be a doddle.

What effect would the pre-heat have on range?

[Mr. Dazzle]

None, if you leave it plugged in while its preheating.

In fact you can get better range. Some of them can also heat the battery to make it work better.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Not directly, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't register.

China (the world's largest investor in green tech BTW) only has coal fired power stations and all the rest of it due to other countries 'importing' them about 100 years ago. Why would renewable and electric vehciles and all the rest of it be different?

[KungFooBob]

That's quick!

[rodbargee]

I really like the idea of the fuel cell electric vehicle like the Toyota Miria its not been developed to be quick like the tesla and doesnt power multiple wheels but gains from fill times in line with a petrol car. They just need to develop the infrastructure, not only fuel stations but how the Hydrogen is derived that powers it. With all that said I'd have one and they're sure to get quicker and more effecient. Mean while the posh Miria is a pretty good car by the looks of it.

[Count Steer]

Oi! Mr Dazzle. Just reading a shipping magazine (as yer do* ) and 'Ammonia is drawing attention as a next-generation clean fuel that does not emit carbon dioxide (and as a 'hydrogen carrier' that can be used to transport hydrogen').

Wossat all about? We don't hear of cars being powered by ammonia.

* Fascinating stuff. Anyone for a 6 cylinder, 2-stroke with 9600bhp at 119rpm? Coincidentally the mag mentions the Waverley (and Balmoral) that featured in the 'Photo of you bike with...' thread elsewhere.

[slowsider]

Oi! Mr Dazzle. Just reading a shipping magazine (as yer do* ) and 'Ammonia is drawing attention as a next-generation clean fuel that does not emit carbon dioxide (and as a 'hydrogen carrier' that can be used to transport hydrogen').

Wossat all about? We don't hear of cars being powered by ammonia.

* Fascinating stuff. Anyone for a 6 cylinder, 2-stroke with 9600bhp at 119rpm? Coincidentally the mag mentions the Waverley (and Balmoral) that featured in the 'Photo of you bike with...' thread elsewhere.

Hydrogen. NH3, innit?

[Count Steer]

Oi! Mr Dazzle. Just reading a shipping magazine (as yer do* ) and 'Ammonia is drawing attention as a next-generation clean fuel that does not emit carbon dioxide (and as a 'hydrogen carrier' that can be used to transport hydrogen').

Wossat all about? We don't hear of cars being powered by ammonia.

* Fascinating stuff. Anyone for a 6 cylinder, 2-stroke with 9600bhp at 119rpm? Coincidentally the mag mentions the Waverley (and Balmoral) that featured in the 'Photo of you bike with...' thread elsewhere.

Hydrogen. NH3, innit?

Yebbut. How does it combust in an engine or do they crack the H2 out of it and burn that?

[slowsider]

Oi! Mr Dazzle. Just reading a shipping magazine (as yer do* ) and 'Ammonia is drawing attention as a next-generation clean fuel that does not emit carbon dioxide (and as a 'hydrogen carrier' that can be used to transport hydrogen').

Wossat all about? We don't hear of cars being powered by ammonia.

* Fascinating stuff. Anyone for a 6 cylinder, 2-stroke with 9600bhp at 119rpm? Coincidentally the mag mentions the Waverley (and Balmoral) that featured in the 'Photo of you bike with...' thread elsewhere.

Hydrogen. NH3, innit?

Yebbut. How does it combust in an engine or do they crack the H2 out of it and burn that?

LMGTFY
https://www.ammoniaenergy.org/articles/ ... n-engines/

[Count Steer]

Hydrogen. NH3, innit?

Yebbut. How does it combust in an engine or do they crack the H2 out of it and burn that?

LMGTFY
https://www.ammoniaenergy.org/articles/ ... n-engines/

And rob Mr Dazzle of his chance to let us bathe in the glow of his automotive genius? You spoilsport!

[Mussels]

Yebbut. How does it combust in an engine or do they crack the H2 out of it and burn that?

LMGTFY
https://www.ammoniaenergy.org/articles/ ... n-engines/

And rob Mr Dazzle of his chance to let us bathe in the glow of his automotive genius? You spoilsport!

He'll only endorse it if it is used to power an electric motor, I think it's a contractual obligation.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Not heard of NH3 being used a ship fuel before - but my question would be similar to the Hydrogen, where do you get it from?

My favourite was the one about using advanced kites and vertical wings to move ships. Using wind power to facilitate international shipping. Now there's a novel idea

[Count Steer]

Not heard of NH3 being used a ship fuel before - but my question would be similar to the Hydrogen, where do you get it from?

My favourite was the one about using advanced kites and vertical wings to move ships. Using wind power to facilitate international shipping. Now there's a novel idea

As ever, from hydrocarbons, but you could capture the CO2 at source I guess. The ships that it's expected to apply to first are - ammonia tankers.

Kites? Wings? Ladeez and gemmun, I give you the, nearly new, Golden Horizon (which sounds like a urination parameter).



Got two electric propulsion units too.

[slowsider]

Pisser about the heli-deck though

[cheb]

There's also the E-ship 1 built for, and operated by, Enercon. It has Flettner rotors at the four corners of the boat.