The Brexit thread

[Hot_Air]

@Horse All I can see is palm trees and a skyscraper. Are you wearing dazzle camouflage?

[Hoonercat]

We are in a country with a shrinking workforce, so wages ought to be rising in competition for a scarce resource. What we have is people in some job paid a pittance, and the taxpayer has to make up the difference in benefits to allow them to live. We need a minimum wage that is realistic, and that will feed through into prices.

Totally agree and as I said here we are in a once in a decade chance for UK lorry drivers to improve their lot, but what do the lefties here want to do - bring back a glut of foreign labour.
Sad, very sad.

Pre-Brexit 'lefties' - better pay for the working class
Pre-Brexit Tories - better pay for British workers, blame foreign workers
Post-Brexit Tories - bring the foreign workers back
Post-Brexit Brexiters - blame the 'lefties'
Sad, very sad.

[demographic]

Best to put the dummy in boiling water for five minutes before using it again.

[DefTrap]

Allowing foreign workers with scarce skills to come was always part of the plan. Just like Australia does.
Continuing with allowing foreign workers to be exploited, so depressing UK wages, was NOT part of the plan.

Just to put it into perspective, as well as the current haulage problem, the meat industry has been beating about 'needing' foreign workers. This same meat industry. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... and-europe

I'm saying it was foreseeable. It was foretold and the reaction was "boo! Quitters!"
Planning, much?

If you're saying let it sort itself out then yeah that's a plan I suppose. But then you stand a chance of backtracking if it doesn't work out. Have fun with that.

[Count Steer]

There's a demand and a shortage.

Surely allowing forrin workers to do "essential jobs" was part of the Brexit plan? Some of you seem to be having a bit of trouble with the Brexit you voted for.

Allowing foreign workers with scarce skills to come was always part of the plan. Just like Australia does.
Continuing with allowing foreign workers to be exploited, so depressing UK wages, was NOT part of the plan.

Just to put it into perspective, as well as the current haulage problem, the meat industry has been beating about 'needing' foreign workers. This same meat industry. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... and-europe

Careful Jack. Protesting against worker exploitation and putting in Guardian links, you'll be getting accused of being a 'socialist'.

As an aside, I wonder where they don't try to use the cheapest labour they can legitimately get in these sort of industries? Japan maybe? (It's a straight question and not implying that if everyone does it it's OK, before someone gets the wrong end of the stick).

[Mr. Dazzle]

What about all the UK people who are going to be worse off due to higher prices and less availability? How much does their quality of life have to drop to raise that of truckers?

I don't know the answer BTW, I'm just trying to illustrate its not all that black and white.

[demographic]

Best to put the dummy in boiling water for five minutes before using it again.

Lol.
I tussle with you a lot, but I actually think you're alright, I think you're just a normal working bloke with an opinion and if I bumped into you I'd buy you a pint, if we were on the same site we'd argue politics and both go home.

He's different, you can't threaten to take something to real life and expect me to forget it.

Dunno really, I'm not right forgiving when someone calls me "Racist by association" deletes it later then suggests I'm oversensitive when I pull em up on it.
Call me old fashioned but I think your just a nasty little twerp with a massive chip on your shoulder.

[slowsider]

@Horse All I can see is palm trees and a skyscraper. Are you wearing dazzle camouflage?

Is he very thin, and wearing a Sideshow Bob wig?

[Horse]

@Horse All I can see is palm trees and a skyscraper. Are you wearing dazzle camouflage?

'Uniform'. Had to wear it when out on bikes too

[Horse]

we can't all be millionaires

Of course we can. But it would be worth eff all

[irie]

Allowing foreign workers with scarce skills to come was always part of the plan. Just like Australia does.
Continuing with allowing foreign workers to be exploited, so depressing UK wages, was NOT part of the plan.

Just to put it into perspective, as well as the current haulage problem, the meat industry has been beating about 'needing' foreign workers. This same meat industry. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... and-europe

I'm saying it was foreseeable. It was foretold and the reaction was "boo! Quitters!"
Planning, much?

If you're saying let it sort itself out then yeah that's a plan I suppose. But then you stand a chance of backtracking if it doesn't work out. Have fun with that.

Everything is foreseeable in hindsight.

[DefTrap]

Everything is foreseeable in hindsight.

Nope you can't rewrite history.
It was written up as project fear and you all cried about it.

It would have been easy to avoid and planned in the 5 years hence and be a killer policy - evict immigrants, save an industry, give jobs to Brits, improve conditions.

But instead it's incompetence and desperately trying to blame someone else. Sadly no EU to blame, that ship has sailed.

[Count Steer]

Everything is foreseeable in hindsight.

Nope you can't rewrite history.
It was written up as project fear and you all cried about it.

It would have been easy to avoid and planned in the 5 years hence and be a killer policy - evict immigrants, save an industry, give jobs to Brits, improve conditions.

But instead it's incompetence and desperately trying to blame someone else. Sadly no EU to blame, that ship has sailed.

The lorry drivers could probably have applied for leave to remain couldn't they? If so, they probably didn't actually expect them to actually up sticks and leave anyway, so the idea that this current love-bombing of the industry was a planned part of Brexit becomes a bit moot. It's all a bit of post hoc rationalisation.

[demographic]

Fair enough, I won't buy you that pint then.
Card suitably marked.

Maybe if I've had this effect on you then you should stop following me around with the snide comments, like the dummy one, you were nothing to do with it, so what were you expecting from that? I could have taken offence but I took it in good humour and offered an olive branch, which you threw it in my face.

Maybe if you didn't act like you'd got a bag of coke once a month then did a cycle of gobbing off, followed by being quieter and posting loads about bikes (which to be fair is generally worth a read as it's genuinely interesting and informative) then repeat a month later with possible username change thrown in for good measure you might find things simpler?

This forum seems to run pretty OK in my book but can tend towards the Iccy argues with whoever forum knocking on every month, or is it 28 days I'm never sure on exact timings.
I'll consider my card to be well and truly marked, black balled, so on and so forth.
I genuinely hope you sort out whatever seems to be eating you up, or lay off the coke.
Whichever it is.

[irie]

Dunno really, I'm not right forgiving when someone calls me "Racist by association" deletes it later then suggests I'm oversensitive when I pull em up on it.
Call me old fashioned but I think your just a nasty little twerp with a massive chip on your shoulder.

Fair enough, I won't buy you that pint then.
Card suitably marked.

Maybe if I've had this effect on you then you should stop following me around with the snide comments, like the dummy one, you were nothing to do with it, so what were you expecting from that? I could have taken offence but I took it in good humour and offered an olive branch, which you threw it in my face.

Oh dear, Iccy is miffed. When will he flounce? Again.

[Taipan]

Everything is foreseeable in hindsight.

Nope you can't rewrite history.
It was written up as project fear and you all cried about it.

It would have been easy to avoid and planned in the 5 years hence and be a killer policy - evict immigrants, save an industry, give jobs to Brits, improve conditions.

But instead it's incompetence and desperately trying to blame someone else. Sadly no EU to blame, that ship has sailed.

The lorry drivers could probably have applied for leave to remain couldn't they? If so, they probably didn't actually expect them to actually up sticks and leave anyway, so the idea that this current love-bombing of the industry was a planned part of Brexit becomes a bit moot. It's all a bit of post hoc rationalisation.

My Son (Transport Manager) said a lot of his Eastern Euro drivers left over the IR35 thing, whatever that is, but it was way before all this apparently?

[Horse]

My Son (Transport Manager) said a lot of his Eastern Euro drivers left over the IR35 thing, whatever that is, but it was way before all this apparently?

Yup, one of the many reasons why there's a shortage. And perhaps a reason why not many foreign drivers will be coming back.

Apart from it being 'tax', I know nothing about it either, whether its introduction was justified, or whether these sorts of outcomes were anticipated.

[Count Steer]

Nope you can't rewrite history.
It was written up as project fear and you all cried about it.

It would have been easy to avoid and planned in the 5 years hence and be a killer policy - evict immigrants, save an industry, give jobs to Brits, improve conditions.

But instead it's incompetence and desperately trying to blame someone else. Sadly no EU to blame, that ship has sailed.

The lorry drivers could probably have applied for leave to remain couldn't they? If so, they probably didn't actually expect them to actually up sticks and leave anyway, so the idea that this current love-bombing of the industry was a planned part of Brexit becomes a bit moot. It's all a bit of post hoc rationalisation.

My Son (Transport Manager) said a lot of his Eastern Euro drivers left over the IR35 thing, whatever that is, but it was way before all this apparently?

It would be interesting to know when TP. The biggest upheaval was 2000 but the tax changes in 2017 were probably the ones. IR35 is for sole trader types - usually employed through an agency, supposed to make sure the tax take is the same as for PAYE people.

[Taipan]

The lorry drivers could probably have applied for leave to remain couldn't they? If so, they probably didn't actually expect them to actually up sticks and leave anyway, so the idea that this current love-bombing of the industry was a planned part of Brexit becomes a bit moot. It's all a bit of post hoc rationalisation.

My Son (Transport Manager) said a lot of his Eastern Euro drivers left over the IR35 thing, whatever that is, but it was way before all this apparently?

It would be interesting to know when TP. The biggest upheaval was 2000 but the tax changes in 2017 were probably the ones. IR35 is for sole trader types - usually employed through an agency, supposed to make sure the tax take is the same as for PAYE people.

He's asleep now (on early shift) but I'll ask him if I see him in the morning before he goes out.

[Taipan]

He just walked through bleary eyed and mumbled a garbled explanation along the lines of the Eastern Euros never paid tax, just coined it in, but the IR35 change meant they got taxed? So I presume their incomes dropped, so they buggered off to Europe. I think he said it was in April after Brexit was in January. I can clarify when he's properly awake!