Tax hike to pay for social care... not very Tory!

[Count Steer]

The UK has always been propped up by the wealthy

Every country which has ever collected taxes has been propped up by the wealthy. Basic numbers innit? The poor take out less than they put in, so the wealthy have to put in more than they take out. All that changes is where the line marked rich/poor is drawn*.

*Somewhere around Watford Gap would be my guess

Not that anyone ever got rich by using the poor for cheap labour eh? Seems there's a possible balance going on.
Anyway, off out to trickle down some wealth.

[Mr Moofo]

I guess someone has to pay for the Covid times and furlough - indirectly or directly. It is fairer that it has been done on NI so it is across the the board - and whilst the less well off will scream "it's not fair", the issues affect all of society.

What is concerning is a) NI still exists - it's just Tax and why anyone pretends it not is beyond me. b) No ring fencing - fuck me, that is charter to give your mates money c) It is noble to give the NHS another 20 billion or whatever it was - but with a non-reformed set up , the great ability to squander money and most GPs inaccessible , you would have thought there would have been clear parameters attached. I am guessing very little will make it through the patient care d) Can we see the new social care process and how it is going to work. It is sorely needed to free up the NHS to do what it is meant do - but it is all going to be a fudge ....

[MingtheMerciless]

c) It is noble to give the NHS another 20 billion or whatever it was - but with a non-reformed set up , the great ability to squander money and most GPs inaccessible , you would have thought there would have been clear parameters attached. I am guessing very little will make it through the patient care

Agreed, as someone who works for a state "run" monolith, in the last five years I've seen £3million spent buying more standby batteries after the originals were left to the elements in un-cooled/heated equipment rooms with no float charge. A project I'm affected by is so far at £200million approx (original budget was £25million) and years late. It still doesn't work properly and is looking like maybe late next year before the software is finally in a fit state for use. I think so far only one person at the contractor has been sacked and nobody in my organisation has been held accountable for this appalling lack of project management.

So how much of the 36 Billion this NI hike will actually make a difference I don't know but I suspect a lot will disappear in fuck ups, poor contracts and empire building with oversight only appearing when the government belated realises its squandered its windfall and by that time those that should be sacked will have retired or moved on after a healthy pay off.

[Saga Lout]

The UK has always been propped up by the wealthy, which makes it all the more strange when the poor moan about them and want to see them taxed into poorness, with the net result that then everyone would be poor.

That's not true. If you tax the rich hard enough you can reduce their incomes so that everybody is above the magical 60% of median income. There you are, poverty solved at a stroke.

[slowsider]

By the time you die they'll have houses of their own already.
Parents don't want to watch kids struggle, but they do like to think they could cope in adversity once the bank of mumandad is shut.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah your kids are probably gonna be in their 40s, 50s or 60s when you cark it Iccy? That's a long time to rent!

Buy your grandkids houses

[Hoonercat]

So how much of the 36 Billion this NI hike will actually make a difference I don't know but I suspect a lot will disappear in fuck ups, poor contracts and empire building with oversight only appearing when the government belated realises its squandered its windfall and by that time those that should be sacked will have retired or moved on after a healthy pay off.

Not to mention the burden on the NHS in having to pay increased employer contributions for its 1.3 million(?) staff.

[Asian Boss]

One MP said: “It’s totally shit. We are asking people on low incomes to pay more tax so that privileged kids can inherit expensive houses.”

At least they're honest.

I like the way the Tories blatantly reneged on their election promise not to. The Brexit billions have turned out to be a huge regressive tax on the low paid to reward the toxic, elderly rich for giving them the mandate to do so.

[JackyJoll]

Can only speak for myself, but I’m not surprised to see a tax rise after the 18 months we’ve just had.

[Mussels]

Voting against tax hike for social care... not very Labour.

[wheelnut]

Voting against tax hike for social care... not very Labour.

Yeah - made me smile as well.

[Saga Lout]

One MP said: “It’s totally shit. We are asking people on low incomes to pay more tax so that privileged kids can inherit expensive houses.”

At least they're honest.

I like the way the Tories blatantly reneged on their election promise not to. The Brexit billions have turned out to be a huge regressive tax on the low paid to reward the toxic, elderly rich for giving them the mandate to do so.

Toxic elderly? I prefer poisonous pensioner, I like alliterating, it's still legal you know.

Anyway, us poisonous pensioners aren't getting away scot free, I read that they've cancelled the triple lock* for next year's pension increase. i was looking forward to an 8% (ish) rise and all.


* Which is so obviously unsustainable it will have to be cancelled sooner or later.

[JackyJoll]

Do the toxic elderly realise they can be replaced!

Do the begrudging young even realise who will replace the toxic elderly!

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Do the toxic elderly realise they can be replaced!

Do the begrudging young even realise who will replace the toxic elderly!

I'll soon be a financially fucked fossil

[irie]

The fact is that this £x bn NHI tax increase for social care will not go to the front line any more than the £10bn a year the NHS says it needs to reduce waiting times to acceptable levels in 5 years time would go the front line.

Everyone knows this but they also know that the NHS and social care system has become an insatiable monster where results are completely disconnected from funding, but its status as the No.1 political sacred cow means that this can never change.

The NHI tax increase is simply a political move to shut up the "NHS/care system needs more money" screamers. For now.

[slowsider]

By the time you die they'll have houses of their own already.
Parents don't want to watch kids struggle, but they do like to think they could cope in adversity once the bank of mumandad is shut.

I worded it wrong, the idea is to give them all a good start before I die. Instead of saying I'd like to "leave" them nice houses, I'd actually like to gift it to them when they need it.

Everyone is capable of coping without handouts, you don't have any choice, you have to survive without a handout if no one gives you one, but there is this perverse working class thing where it's a badge of honour to not gift your kids an easy life, I find it weird, being in the rat race to achieve financial security is a mugs game and if I can create a situation where my kids don't have to then I'll jump at it.

People that suffer financially are often disadvantaged and suffer more health issues, not to mention stress at having to work their arses off. Even normal working class folk suffer from stress and hardship, taking on debt just to fund a nice house, etc. I've personally struggled financially at certain periods of my life, juggling bills and worrying, so why wouldn't you want to try and push your kids past that with a bit of financial help?

Some people make it sound like they're doing their kids a favour by not helping them.

[bloke in vest] I grew up skint so I'll damn well make sure my kids spend the first twenty years of their adult lives skint, it might knock ten years off their life expectancy and give them 2-3 decades of worry but it'll make men out of them... beats chest...

I'm struggling to see the value in that.

I have an uncle that was gifted a house when he got married, it made a massive impact to his life having a family home that was suitable for his whole life and not needing to ever take a mortgage. He's in his 70's now and he told me that looking back it had a huge impact on his life and gave him freedom and peace not having to worry about paying for his home, he had a very successful career and could make choices that other people couldn't. I remember my parents struggling throughout the late 70's and 80's when times were tough, he had a very different experience.

It's possible you may not be doing them the favour you think, if your own success originates in a reaction to your parents circs.
Did your uncle have kids? How have they fared?

First generation makes it, second generation spends it, third generation blows it. Allegedly.

[David]

If it helps, I inherited a house (and some cash) at 51....72 now and in a house I own, no real debt....not much cash...but it settled me, allowed an adventure (5 years in Holland on a boat) and i am very grateful.

All in all I would still rather have the uncle.

[Asian Boss]

Do the toxic elderly realise they can be replaced!

Do the begrudging young even realise who will replace the toxic elderly!

Who put the plastic in the sea? One, two three, it was the toxic elderly!

The young people have to take it out. And fix all the carbon and global warming and ting, which again are problems the TE created.

I am neither. I am middle aged.

[Felix]

The old bastards must be still working in China

https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/th ... ea%20lanes.

[Mussels]

That sounds more like selfish with socialism as an excuse.